Weekend Wars: Bankers vs. Traders
We always argue about who makes more money, has the better lifestyle and who are generally the ones who have it made in the industry. It is almost as if the financial universe is a school of fish, constantly nipping at each other’s tail in hopes of getting ahead. Guys log unbelievable hours and put in an effective decade’s worth of work time well before they reach their thirties.
I have given up on trying to figure out whether it is worth it or not. You hang around long enough and you realize that all rules are arbitrary. Everyone defines their own rules and parameters. Nobody is ever right, there are just those who screw up less often and to a lesser extreme than others. That’s why today’s topic is not so much about who is better and a bigger success, but who is simply more fun to be around.
Since I would like to get a head to head perspective on the subject I am going to stick to pairs at a time. Our first comparison covers where most guys on this board started or hope to start. Yep…it’s time for another bankers vs. traders debate.
One Night in Manhattan
Sitting down and throwing back a few with a couple of old friends last week. One’s moved on the F50 upper management, the other’s running his own biz. One was a banker. One was a trader. One was quiet, conservative and diligent. One was sloppy, aggressive and brilliant. They both made a boat load of cash at a time when the getting’ was good. The odd thing is that today you can’t tell them apart. One has mellowed. One has hardened. Yet they both agree on one thing, as they toast in unison.
Fuck Wall Street and everyone in, on or around it.
We go through a few hours of catching up and both are assuring me that if anyone from “the old days” shows up they are leaving. We wind up hanging out with some drunken firemen, a cabbie and our old buddy who found more happiness than all of us put together… as a hot dog vendor.
Without talking too much about my friends or their own experiences I will say they both got the boot from the industry, so it is probably not unfair to say they hold sour grapes. It did get me thinking, however, about the choice of company we keep with regards to industry people.
Since most here are in banking and trading, let’s stick to those choices. Who do you guys like better? Who do you get along with better? Is there any truth to the notion that birds of a feather, flock together? Obviously, the diverging work schedules will hold most Wall Street people to rolling around with their own kind.
But this really is not that deep of a debate. I just want to know who you'd rather hang out with?
I feel bankers learn more about biz and traders know more about THEIR biz
I think that says more though about personal choices that you make in life than about the industry. There's a good degree of bullshit in ANY profession, so it's probably a "grass is greener" thing.
As far as the topic goes, I always found those bankers vs. traders questions a bit ridiculous. Seriously, if you want to be successful (not just financially but more to the point just happy) in either, you have to like it on a personal level and not just the money. That's just going to depend on what kind of work you like to do.
Bankers. IMO, traders seem to be more technical/quant-obsessed/nerdy. lol just my opinion though no offense
The technical/quant obsessed/nerdy type you describe has only evolved over the last decade because of advancements like algo programs that trade on volume etc etc. I would say that a trading lifestyle allows for more leisure, is less structured and a bit more entrepreneurial. It's impossible to say though because your job doesn't define your personality.
Really? I see the complete opposite. The bankers always seem to be the ones who were quiet, kept to themselves, hard working and "nerdy". The traders I know were always the life of the party type person, an athlete, personable and very outgoing. Once they started working they become much more similar as the "nerdy" banker came out of their shell and opened up more
To each his own I guess. I was just speaking from personal experience, and others seem to have a similar opinion based on the stereotypes each get.
/|\ I see a good amount of this.
Being in the city during the summer working on the S/T desk it is a lot more common to hang with S/T guys than bankers in my little group, mainly due to times and work schedules
When talking to the average non finance person it is a lot easier for traders to transition into normal convos when the "what do you do line comes up"
Facebook status update right here. Love this!
Am I comparing the nerdy, workaholic analyst banker to the jock, work hard play hard trader? Or am I comparing the smooth talking MD to the bookish quant trader?
At what point does the comparison cease to matter? At what point does work transcend lifestyle and into a means to an end? When do you realize that no matter what you do, you're making someone else richer by getting your hands dirty for them, that the only effective corporate structure is the Ponzi scheme?
I think Midas is illustrating the point that whether you become a banker or a trader, all pigs go to slaughter. That when you're dead and buried, people won't remember you for being a trader or a banker.
Our little click at the firm consists of a banker, a trader, and an operations manager. Good times, the ops manager is a pimp with the ladies, the trader reminds me of bugs bunny in a polka dot dress (best way to describe the way he acts when he is wasted), and I am a trooper according to them.
Few notes re:jr.bankers --the junior guys in banking are subjected to an unholy degree of bitchslapping with no way to climb out. The jr.trader does also, but he can climb out of his hole by showing intellectual / trading superiority (relative to other jrs), which is redeeming on a human level. Promotions by way of activity (e.g. not "title" promotions) are way faster and more meritocratic, so you can TRADE for real well before your associate title bump--this "title transcendence" is unique to trading--you are making markets like a VP is (maybe not trading same size but truly doing the same/similar work). The only way the jr. banker can climb within his sociodemographic political sphere is by being be best to process bitch-work, with no real way to transcend his title regardless of his actual abilities as the best jr. banker since sliced bread. As such, jr. bankers are ''trapped'' and are WAYYYY more bitter, which carries over into the few precious drinking nights they have with buddies. --the culture of banking: the cubicles, the late night behind-the-back convos, the secret cliques amongst irrelevant title "ranks" (e.g. analysts with analysts, sr. analysts with sr. analysts, post-mba associates with post-mba associates) cooks up a uniquely toxic environment of secret fiefdoms. The opportunity to have such secrecy is much more limited on a sellside trading desk where your managing director is literally sitting next to you all day (sure you can gossip on your way to lunch w/ other jr traders--but more limited vs. jr bankers).
wow, talk about fucking generalizations.
There's a ton of variation within those two separate groups. As long as you're happy doing your job, you'll be a lot more fun to be around. I've had good times with both finance guys and traders (including some on this site!)
"one night stands with biracial midgets are pretty damn cool"
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