I signed to an ECM shop in Houston over the summer, but recently got a better offer in New York at a different shop, in M&A.
My start date for the one I signed in Houston is less than a month away. How do I tell them I'm taking the New York offer even though I signed? Will they not allow me to?
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You signed a contract with them? I guess you would need to tell them you can know longer work while being as vague as possible. Don't update your LinkedIn and go silent on social media. You kinda put yourself in a pretty shitty predicament both with yourself and the firm you were going to work for.
At best, they'll let you go and blacklist you from recruiting at their firm for rescinding 1 month before start. At worst, they contact your current shop and they both blacklist you. Godspeed.
So there's no way they understand that I came across a better opportunity and just wish me well? Excuse my niaveness but I just feel like anyone would do the same thing if they were in my positon.
Rescinding can be an extremely bad look depending on who you ask. My alma mater's competitive finance program blacklisted people from the alumni network who were caught rescinding offers. Plus, you literally signed a binding contract that you have to break.
You fundamentally cost them time and money, and they have no emotional attachment to you -- so yes they would obviously be very annoyed. Even the pro-rescinders on WSO would tell you that you tuck your tail between your legs and ambiguously tell them you cannot take the offer due to personal conflicts, leaving it as vague as possible. You take the other offer and don't update your LinkedIn until a few months down the road when you're at the new job.
Depends, if it’s Moelis don’t sweat it, they got enough shit on their trench coats that they are one hitting rainbow members
Deldeldeldeldeldeldeldeldeldeldeldeldeldeldel
I really don't get why is it so bad to renege. People move between firms all the time. I'd argue that from an ethical perspective it's much worse to look for or interview with other firms while being on a job (the company invested in you, you're exposed to confidential materials, etc.), than to do so before starting and then reneging.
Wow the fearmongering... You guys realize that no firm would risk the reputational and legal consequences of "snitching" on kids who reneged on them. You do realize that if the new firm rescinds its offer to the kid (a thing they would never do but whatever) because the previous firm snitched on him, then the previous firm can face some legal consequences
While I agree he most likely won’t face consequences. The “reputation damage” is probably not something the banks care about. Literally had an associate worked to death a month ago and business is still usual at BofA
nah trust me word gets out when there is a bank or a banker that "snitches" on these kind of things. The small nature of the industry can cut both way
That's pretty accurate. There is a serious legal risk if anyone says anything that's not true. But I'd still not tell them where I"m going, because you don't know if some frigid recruiting dept girl decides to text her friend at the new firm or whatever.
Just tell the old firm you're not coming. Your choice whether to say you're going to a different firm (I would), or lie to them and making up some bullshit about health or whatever.
I'd tell them that I had a change of heart about where I want to live and I've decided to take an offer in New York. If they ask where, just say basically "I'm sorry to be a weird fuck about this, nothing personal but there's always the far-fetched risk that somebody says something and I can't afford that risk . . sorry I can't tell you".
I bet they'll actually understand that.
Then, to seal off all risk, stay off LinkedIn for a few months (or don't put the new firm on there) just so the dust settles. It's a remote risk anyhow, but why worry about it.
eventually he'll have to update his LI so what's the point? If they're pissed they'd be still pissed after a couple of months.
Anyway, I never heard of anyone getting screwed over these things. It's extremely unprofessional to do so by the renged firm
Business is business. You go with what it’s best for you. During bear banks fired hundreds in a heartbeat, they dgaf about you, so you shouldn’t either. We in this b for the money and nothing else. Go with what is best for you.
If it’s a just an offer letter and your employment is “at will” you have ZERO obligation to them (which is the case 99% of the time). The offer letter will say something like “your employment is at will” but double check to be safe.
You might risk burning bridges with the firm in the future but I doubt anyone will really begrudge a 20 something year old for taking the best offer available to them. They’ll probably forget about you entirely after like 6 months. Don’t feel badly about it given they would cut you in a second if it made financial sense for them to do so.
Yeah it is “at will”
it's irrelevant whether the offer letter states that or not. The guy has yet to start his employment so he can pull out any time
Can someone chime in here and confirm this about the "at will" clause? I haven't heard this before but if this is true I genuinely can't comprehend how there would ever be any consequence of reneging beyond getting blacklisted from the bank you were supposed to work at. I thought the horror stories of seniors calling across banks to get offers pulled was under the guise of "beware, this person has violated a contract with us" rather than them just completely working their networks to "get back" at a literal college kid.
All employment in the U.S. is at will, meaning you or the employer can rescind offers or leave at any point in time for any (or no) reason at all.
Reneging is usually more of an ethical situation but banks aren’t exactly known to be the most ethical places when it comes to a downturn / layoffs, etc
You’re just an analyst, not an MD. A big bank typically won’t go through the effort of trying to ruin your career and risk reputational and legal risk. Plus, you can always say the reason for the renege is personal / family reasons.
I'll give a bit of a different take as someone a bit more older in the industry.
There are very valid comments where you do run the risk of the ECM firm blacklisting you, and a risk where someone at the ECM firm takes it a bit too personal and tells his buddies at other firms to blacklist you also. However, I think the likelihood of that risk is extremely low - at the end of the day, most people don't really care much about interns (no offense) and have a lot more important things to worry about than some student that will spend 3-4 months with them.
If I were you, I would evaluate how much "better" this NY M&A opportunity is vs. the Houston ECM shop, and question if you ever see yourself working full-time at the Houston shop. If the answer is something like A) this is some local Houston ECM shop doing like <$100M equity raises, no M&A capabilities, seniors don't have good backgrounds, and you have a shot at like Jefferies or RBC (or a BB or EB ofc), I would renege. But if we're talking like B) going from a Houston ECM boutique to a NY local boutique doing small M&A deals with also not many reputable seniors, I don't think I would renege.
Lastly, I'm not sure how Houston labor laws work, but I've never experienced this situation where someone actually signed, then reneged. Not sure if you owe them anything, but that's worth exploring what potential legal repercussions are (highly unlikely, but never know) as signing legal documents always makes things complicated.
Thank you for your help! It’s a full time analyst role not summer internship and the contract is an at-will contract.
Thanks - won't change my thoughts.
On the one hand, I think they'll be a bit more invested if its a full-time role vs. internship, so the risk is a bit greater. But on the other hand, being in NY and doing M&A is a much better skillset, and if the branding and experience from the NY shop is a lot better, that will mean more for your resume and full-time experience also. So they offset each other in my opinion, and I would still base your decision on the same rational I put above
Congrats on the offer! Renege and dont look back, they will understand / will forget you in a few weeks
I think the pro move is to tell the new firm that you really want to join but have this dilemma and maybe they’ll extend you a full time offer or say they are okay with it and to go ahead and reneg
I would not try to pull a fast one
Transparency is a good policy - cover your basis
AS1 in ECM here, PM if you’d like a second opinion. Looks like you’ve gotten some great advice, but if you’d like mine I’d be happy to chat.
do what is best for you, life is short, but your triumph can be great
To me, this is a simple decision. If you went into this wanting to do M&A, or at least understand that M&A opens more doors, you should definitely renege.
However, you should go about reneging like a real man. Whoever you were speaking most to during the process (outside of HR) - give him a call and say “hey man, really appreciate the process and was incredibly excited to start with yall, but to be honest I’ve just had an opportunity come up that’s a truly great fit for my long term career goals, and sadly I’ll be starting with them this summer.” If they push about who it is, just say “I’d share, but still finalizing a few things with them at the moment.” Don’t update your LinkedIn for at least half a year.
edit: forgot to mention as well - the reason why you call is as mentioned, you want to do it like a man, but it also allows you to avoid having any sort of email trail of your reneging
email trail aspect is irrelevant. They either way have evidence of you signing the offer letter,
Bad take imo. Emails are super easily forwarded and read and can show incriminating evidence whereas employment agreements are just a signature and isn’t actual evidence of anything you did wrong. Plus, again… if you’re going to reneg, be a man about it
It's just business. Accept and start the other offer, and tell the current place you are taking up non profit work in EU. Don't update your linkedin or talk about your current job for at least a year, make sure no one finds out. Any bank will cut you for no reason at any time, you are in at-will employment and retain the absolute right to do the same.
It's just business.
not updating LI for a year is extreme and pretty stupid (limiting yourself from HH reach out)
See, you are on at-will employment.
So technically, you can just start working, give your two weeks notice, then start at a different place.
I think they'll appreciate it more if you tell them up front that you have to do something else like the dude above said (no email, only phone). This is a lot better than quitting after a couple of weeks in. Appreciate their time in the process and mention you did not want to leave them hanging after a month in when they invest time training you. They def already have a pipeline of candidates ready to take it. So a conversation upfront is a lot better.
And yeah, forget LinkedIn. Doesn't matter if it is not updated. One of my principals never kept LinkedIn and this is why.
You all are over thinking this. You’re not that important. Just do this politely and don’t rub it in their faces. Do what’s in your best interest.
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