Any tips for sleeping well?
VP level now and my sleep habits are still fucked because of IB.
Even though sometimes I can sleep earlier (12am) than when I was an analyst/associate, I still can't sleep. Sometime I'll have to occupy myself till like 2am to sleep, rely on melatonin (I don't want to rely on it), or sometimes just can't sleep at all.
Anyone has any tips on sleeping well during IB or am I resigned to it being fucked because I have to work till 2am sporadically? Should I just rely on melatonin? (is it even safe to take it for a long period of time)
edit: saw some replies. Thanks for the input.
I already take magnesium before I sleep, have a weighted blanket, sleep at 22 degrees celcius, no coffee at all, or if I do, no coffee after 12pm (unless there's a meeting where I have to stay awake/focused). I try to sleep the same time every night (but of course, with work this isn't usually possible, same reason why I can't do no screens as well).
Does creatine really help? I can function on 5 hours of sleep (or even less) but I really want to sleep more. I know more sleep is good for me. I'll probably just go for eye bag surgery after IB but that only solves the looks part. The poor sleep even persists on weekends.
Would recommend a magnesium supplement over melatonin. Invest in quality pillows that work for you. Keep bedroom cool, where a weighted eye mask. Drink some chamomile tea an hour before you want to sleep. These things helped me a lot.
Agree on pillow, cold room, and tea (haven't tried eye mask so can't comment).
The tea is a nice touch - it acts as an indicator to your body to relax and get in sleep mode (at least for me)
A few things. Keep melatonin usage limited to like 1-3mg. Pair that with magnesium; ashwaganda if anxious. There are other supplements that can help with quality sleep I don’t know what they are nor use them. Other things to focus on would be maintaining consistency with when you hit the pillow and when you wake up, helps regulate natural patterns. Additionally, no screens an hour before sleep. What has helped me the most is just laying in bed and reading for 10-20 minutes - it quiets the mind and helps your body naturally relax.
Add the maximum possible red filter on all devices, I use flux on my computer
I thought you were going to say capacitor for a second
Finally a thread for the holistic health finance bros. Some things Ive found that have helped when work is stressful
Magnesium - like the other commenters said. Magnesium chloride or magnesium glycinate
Collagen peptides / Glycine (or both) - glycine is an amino acid that is beneficial for sleep and unless you are taking bone broth or regularly eating collageneous foods
Tart cherry juice - carbs / electrolytes (carbs often can be helpful for sleep. If you arent getting enough during the day it can contribute to cortisol spikes) as well as a natural source of melatonin. Raw honey also helpful for this reason
Sex
Relaxation - Lemon balm, l-theanine, ashwagandha (but personally ive found this gave me anhedonia), chamomile tea
Yoga / stretching - helps relieve stress and tension
Turning off screens, using black / white and blue light blockers if you have to actually look at them, red / candle lights
Better actual sleep itself - dark room, cold (personally i keep my AC at 64 and open my window in winter), earplugs if you're on a noisy street or use white noise, nose tape / saline spray / mouth tape to improve breathing
What to do in the morning
All the above generally take me about 10 mins MAX depending on how long i stretch for. Honestly, the routine itself helps to bring calm to my day
Ultimately, trying your best to reduce stress, lower corrisol through the day will be the best drivers. Cut out stressful hobbies like gambling and video games and no no drinking!
Sex is precisely what occupies OP VP from 12am to 2am dawg. Bad advice.
Saying you can do all this in 10 minutes is the ultimate self-own
Swimming helped me sleep a lot better, would also recommend investing in a sleep tracking device to track
As someone who owned an Oura, I found sleep tracking to be the biggest waste of time. You know when you didn't get a good sleep, you don't need a ring to tell you that. And then chasing a better score can actually make you sleep worse
A lot of other people have mentioned the following advice, but I'm a summer analyst who is autistic about lifting and health and wanted to add some of my own
Please know that I am not your doctor, and dosages/sleep routines will vary by body weight, sex, genetic factors, etc.
Supplements
Try taking 1.5 mg of melatonin roughly 1-2 hours before bed, and you can follow with another 1.5 mg as needed 30 mins before bed. One thing to note is that more melatonin is not better or does not necessarily make you more tired. Your body also does not build tolerance to melatonin, so I wouldn't worry about a melatonin dependance.
10g+ of creatine before bed. Creatine is one of the most well researched brain health supplements. Studies have also shown that creatine has a positive effect on cognitive performance and limiting stress before sleep. It's cheap, and taking the supplement doesn't have negative effects or hurt hair growth (which is a super common myth), so I would recommend at least 10g+.
I don't take these, but 1 hour before bed you can try taking 3-5g of glycine (neurotransmitter that improves sleep quality), ~100-500 mg gaba (calming effect), KSM-66 (highly bio-available form of ashwaganda), and eating two kiwis (well-studied benefits for sleep)
Super important: avoid caffeine at least ~8-10 hours before bed. This is hard, and I actually consume 400mg+ of caffeine per day (it is actually neuroprotective, just need to cycle dosages for tolerance buildup), but caffeine has a half life of ~6 hours and WILL significantly disrupt sleep quality and time to fall asleep.
Food and Water
Avoid excessive water consumption, and best to avoid any water, at least one to two hours before bed. Waking up during the middle of the night to pee will disrupt your sleep quality (and total duration). 15 mins to fall back asleep if you're only getting 5-6 hours of sleep per night daily is a big deal.
~300-400mg of magnesium glycinate 1-2 hours before bed. I've found that it has a slight calming effect and improves sleep quality. You can also try taking magnesium l-threonate which is more expensive, but its main draw point is that it passes through the blood-brain barrier and thus is good for brain health. I've very anecdotally found that taking l-threonate has improved my memory and cognitive abilities but definitely test the two. Do not take magnesium oxide unless you wanna shit yourself. Regardless, almost everyone is deficient in magnesium and should be taking this
200 mg of L-theanine can be helpful to reduce stress/make falling asleep easier. I don't seem to find much effect from it but feel free to give it a try.
Overall, though, your daily diet and micronutrient intake matters immensely. You can try tracking your intake using an app for a few days to gauge how good your diet is. I would also recommend taking a good multivitamin (Thorne is phenomenal) and high-quality fish oil pills daily
Alcohol is terrible for sleep. If you are truly serious about getting better sleep then I wouldn't drink at all. I still drink though
Sleep Environment
Sleep in a cold room between 60 degrees and 67 haha degrees Fahrenheit.
Avoid dense meals 2 hours before bed since digestion raises body temperature and may lower sleep quality.
Avoid bright lights/use dim lights ~2 hours before bed. If you're working, you can maybe turn on a blue light filter and lower screen brightness which might help.
Sleep in complete darkness or use a sleep mask, and try using a weighted blanket around ~15 lbs (up to personal preference though)
Physical Activity
Some form of daily exercise (~5k-10k steps per day if possible) and lifting (full-body 3x a week for 60-90 minute sessions) will significantly improve sleep quality and general health. If your really scrapped on time, I recommend doing a full-body workout maybe 2x a week, and train each muscle group in 1-2 exercises for 2-3 total sets per session). Limit warm-ups to only one rep of 90-100% of a 5-9 rep working set and train to 1-2 reps away from failure. I'm not going to delve further since it's not the point of this post, but I recommend searching up KeenanRMalloy, Bigpro427, Jeff Nippard is okay, etc. to learn more about strength training and exercise if you want.
Wearables
A sleep tracking device might be helpful for you when or if you decide to implement any of these changes into your routine. Oura Ring, Ultrahuman, or Apple Watch are probably the best on the market (from what I remember last year), but good alternatives exist. Only get one of these devices if you believe that the feedback you get (e.g. sleep scores, sleep latency, sleep heart rate, etc.) will actually be something that you can act/learn from in your daily life. For example, I found that my sleep quality improved when taking magnesium, sleeping in a colder room, implementing some of the advice listed above, etc., so I stuck with them. Don't just use them as a gamified tool like many people do just to see some fun stats about their body
Hope this is somewhat helpful and writing this late at night, so I apologize for my sloppy writing
Melatonin is bad because it makes your body stop producing its own melatonin and long term reliance on melatonin supplements is associated with some health issues.
Aswagandha + GABA can overdamp the system to the point of making u emotionally numb in a bad way (which is why I'm not a big fan of aswagandha). There are even some side effects of Aswagandha overstimulating the thyroid. You also need to take breaks from Aswagandha every 3-6 months, which means that the moment you take a break you're back to having issues falling asleep.
and creatine has no impact when it is taken
agree with l-theanine best case u feel smth worst case nothing, depends on the person (albeit some say it's a bit of a placebo)
Im in the same boat as OP, trying to figure out how to sleep better and waking up at the same hour everyday had the biggest impact so far, but still, trying to find ways to sleep even better
A very simple trick before you start pill -maxxing (magnesium is great and all you probably need supplement wise): read a book in bed in your dimly lit room for 15-20 minutes before bed, screens off for that time. Naturally relaxing and has worked for thousands of years.
The book shouldn’t be like self help slop, but something relaxing/boring: philosophical texts from biblical times, economic history, fiction written before 1900 etc. the book must be a physical page turner.
Same here IB wrecked my sleep. I left it and that's what fixed it lol. The truth is you've wired your body to be reactive and stressed at night because of late night comments and work for years. The body I feel remembers it for years.
weed (indica) is the only full-proof solution.
melatonin works a bit too and is harmless, but it won't do that much.
magnesium has no impact on me. and the rest mentioned in this thread (like ashwaganda and such) is just voodoo magic / placebo stuff.
For rough nights, try taking 50mg of benadryl. I guarantee it will put you to sleep. Magnesium and melatonin won't work like it will.
try to sleep around 4am-6am.
hope this helps
10 beers puts me out like a light.
Just sleep in the office when no one is looking.
Try meditating for 30 min before sleeping. Exercise is good but could be dangerous if you're lacking sleep in the first place
Apigenin can help , add it to the aforementioned magnesium bisglycinate
If you wake up in the middle of the night thinking about something, write it down in your phone and “throw the thought away” in your mind. Don’t try to carry it and remember.
Get an eye mask to block any light.
Acknowledge that you’re a night owl and sleep later and wake up later (you might need a different job or profession).
Try to get your heart rate down before sleeping.
I found a hack that knocks me out in 10bminutes
Shakti mat
Buy it, set your alarm and don’t touch your phone and lay on the mat for 20 minutes. Whether your mind is busy or not if you lay on it long enough it will clear it and relax you. It’s like magic and you don’t need supplements or all other weird things
Every time I use it before bed my sleep quality is also 3x
I’ve done some research and this sounds phenomenal. Have you found any other health benefits? Also, where did you buy yours?
I bought a “copy” on Amazon when I was a broke A1 as it was only 20-30. I think the original one is around $100, not sure if there’s any real difference. There’s various levels of spike pressure but given you haven’t tried it before I would just get a well reviewed one on Amazon
As per the benefits- lots of people using for pain as well. Haven’t used it much for that purpose except for a period where I had some sort of “restless leg” so I used to put the spiky pillow below and it would stop me
Main benefit for me is that it simply clears my mind. I can’t explain it - I can have the most racing thoughts (and they continue while you’re on the mat until it starts kicking off) - but if you stay long enough eg 15min and make sure you are actually just relaxing and not using your phone or anything like that, then everything stops. I recently have been using it directly in bed and I genuinely fall asleep in 10min (pressure on your back in bed is also lower because of the mattress - to be clear you should be using this naked, ignore the pictures where people are doing this with the T-shirt on)
orange tinted blue light glasses 90 min before bed
If you’re rich, put two beds in your bedroom. You’ll sleep better alone. If you’re really rich, sleep in separate bedrooms.
Bedroom should be very cool, very quiet, and incredibly dark. If you can pretty much see everything in your bedroom at night, it is too bright. Get an eye mask to wear when sleeping.
You should also get a weighted blanket. For the same reason why pressure/coddling calms a baby down, adults feel safer when under the weight of a more meaningful blanket. These are hot, so emphasize the need to keep the room cool.
Noise in NYC can be a problem. Use foam ear plugs if there is even a moderate amount of noise. Also, explore a brown noise machine.
I wouldn’t use any drugs or supplements. Those may help you fall asleep, but unless you have an acute sleep issue, you shouldn’t need those.
Lastly, don’t drink caffeine after 2pm. If you’re hypersensitive, that may be noon.
The Ozlo sleepbuds have been a game changer for me
I have the anker soundcore a30s, slightly different but same concept. Also been a complete game changer
magnesium
a clear conscience
Sleep in a room colder than I would like. Started doing that recently and has done wonders.
For me, a freezing cold shower ~10-20 mins before bed also helps. I've lost quite a few pounds this way (sleeping in the cold helps increase your metabolism) while not changing my diet / routine.
trazadone. Suprised it has not been metnioned at all yet here.
Macrodose magnesium. Start with around 2,000mg, and increase from there if it's not enough. Honestly, with magnesium more is always better
trying too hard
Goon every night before bed
sleep with somebody else :/
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