Let's Talk Bitcoin
I bought a little over a grand of BTC back when it was worth ~10k and it has been ripping since then. If you don't keep up with bitcoin it's around 13.6K a bitcoin now. Paypal just allowed bitcoin on their platform, Asian banks are beginning to allow crypto trading, companies like Square are literally putting tens of millions of bitcoin on their balance sheet - it seems like it won't be long before bitcoin explodes with institutional money flowing in and more acceptance by the mainstream. I'm considering putting a much more significant amount of money in.
What do you all think? Anyone else on the bitcoin train?
Bitcoin transactions are insanely expensive. As the trading volume increase, mining fees increase, making adoption for everyday purchases unlikely. Whales can easily manipulate the market. Most miners are now Chinese, which means that CCP could launch a 51% attack and take control of the ledger book.
Taking control of the ledger block is WAY harder than it sounds, if it was so easy it would've been done a while ago. And the more money that pours into bitcoin, the harder it gets
Bitcoin's valuation doesn't really matter, as institutions and individuals buy bitcoins that have already been mined.
https://news.bitcoin.com/65-of-global-bitcoin-hashrate-concentrated-in-… this article is dated May 7, 2020. 65% of the global hashrate is concentrated in China.
Let's say JPMorgan AM buys billions of $ worth of bitcoins. CCP wants to fuck with JPM. CCP takes control of the mining centers, either through force or using pre-installed software or hardware backdoors. 51% attack, a new transaction is created, which leads JPM to send billions of $ to a Chinese wallet.
Given I have little to no exposure here, can you explain the relationship between transaction costs and what mining fees are and who incurs those fees? I'm genuinely curious about the flow which allows a single transaction to be made and priced at what it is.
On top of the other reasons above, you are forgetting bitcoin only has value because of its security due to the ledge. If the CCP invested enough resources to launch an attack like that and it was successful, their entire position would then be worth nothing. So even if it could happen, it would have no benefit
Owners of bitcoin wallets can make fast transactions using this cryptocurrency. The advantages of such transfers are obvious: minimal fees, efficiency, no fraud. Cryptocurrency is not controlled by the banking system, and decentralization avoids the participation of third parties in the transaction. The question arises as to whether this payment method is legal for Russians and how to accept payments on the site using bitcoin.
Payment platforms for accepting BTC
There are several promising services for paying or exchanging bitcoins. Each of them has certain advantages and loyalty programs with which they attract customers. The list of popular B2B platforms for making cryptocurrency payments includes Cryptex pay and many others.
Gradually, the platform transformed into a cryptocurrency payment gateway. Today, it allows you to conduct transactions, sell and exchange Bitcoin (ETH, LTC, XRP).
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I think we are seeing greater global acceptance though. Microstrategy put $165 million of bitcoin on their balance sheet, PayPal is allowing bitcoin transactions, etc. It isn't going to happen overnight, but it is a trend that isn't slowing down. I don't think it will ever replace fiat currency, but I think there will be a point where it is recognized as a legitimate store of value and a very effective way to transfer money (for example if you live in a nation that is falling apart and you need to flee with all your assets, what better way than to put it in bitcoin and simply remember your wallet and catchphrase?)
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In June 2020, I bought Bitcoin for $ 11,000; it's not a lot of money, so I'm just wondering how this business works, why it goes up and down. I look at stocks to see if they have the opportunity to trade regularly. The cryptocurrency sector, as far as I know, is very unpredictable. A quick 30 second will empty your bank account easily. As a result, you should know very well where to place your stop loss. I even use various swing trading tactics that I find on the internet to understand the cryptocurrency industry.
I'm in for 10K so far, and taking my position up to 50k over the next 6 months. Buckle your seatbelts because it's going to be a bumpy ride
Gold has a pretty large negative carry1-2% per year in normal times and 6% + back in March, unless you own the physical.physical gold is basically impossible to get out of the country, and you pay a large bid/offer and subject to the physical basis when selling. Countries like India have banned gold imports/exports and there’s precedent for that to happen anywhere
I’m always surprised how few people are willing to put 1-5% of their portfolio into something when clearly it has the staying power and didn’t fizzle out after 2017. Even JPM is putting out price predictions, and DBS (a large asian investment bank) is building a crypto exchange
Happily long a few bitcoins from around 4500 and only regret not owning more
I agree with the 1-5% entirely. Worst case scenario the value goes back to like 5k, best case scenario you make 10x, 100x, who knows how much
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I don't get gold. Gold has no intrinsic value (well, that's not entirely true since there are some industrial uses, but nothing that justifies the price of gold). If society collapses, owning gold in its electronic form is a worthless investment. If society collapses and you have physical gold 1) you'd need starving people to accept gold as a form of currency rather than food, water, and firearms and 2) you'd need to be able to defend your physical gold with violent force. If anything, gold ownership in a collapsed society is a liability--makes you at least marginally more likely to be killed.
So, the #1 reason I hate gold investing is that I can't get passed the idea that it's one of the most ridiculous asset investments on this planet. My brain won't let me get passed that.
Right?
If you're worried about societal collapse, buy some guns and start a local militia on a secluded island with arable land & potable water, because no one is going to be bartering with gold and/or bitcoin :s
My point is that if you buy a gold etf in your pa, or gold futures and roll yourself for 20 years, you’re going to pay 20-40% in negative carry. Also take a look at gold performance in 2008 and and in March, it gets sold as collateral to meet margin calls. Of course btc didn’t hold up either, but it’s definitely more speculative and I’m not arguing it isn’t
I’m not bearish gold or anything, but at the end of the day it’s a real interest rates going lower trade, while bitcoin is some new asset class which which could be the backbone of a digital currency ecosystem
central banks from the ECB to the FED are researching their own digital dollars, and it’s almost guaranteed some form of this will be adopted
I’m not some bitcoin/crypto evangelist, I just think it’s a great macro trade that i wouldn’t want to miss
Here's what I think is going to keep Bitcoin and cryptos from going mainstream (at least for payment purposes): why would I buy a pizza with Bitcoin when that Bitcoin could be worth two pizzas by the time I am done paying? People bought and used Bitcoin for its intended purpose when Bitcoin first started, but now most people are buying Bitcoin for investment (gambling) purposes. That only leaves non-investors who would be willing to part with Bitcoin, and good luck getting them to go through the trouble of buying Bitcoin on Coinbase, transferring it to a Ledger, etc. That's too cumbersome.
This is a true story: https://cointelegraph.com/news/the-bitcoin-pizza-day-numbers-are-actual…
This is exactly correct. For a currency to be "usable" it needs to keep a relatively steady value. As long as it rises and falls 30% in a month it will be nothing more than a speculative asset.
The market decides what a technology's purpose is. People haven't used bitcoin to buy a coffee since 2012-2013 and that is NOT it's long-term use case. It's found a product market fit with the digital store of value use case and that will only accelerate as more Fortune 500 institutions add it to their balance sheets, followed thereafter by pension funds and eventually sovereign nations. A Hong Kong based company just became the first company to add ether to their balance sheet and the long term implications of combing the money legos of ethereum with the pristine collateral of bitcoin are obvious.
Who actually buys shit with bitcoin besides stuff from the deep web
I don't buy bitcoin, but I receive bitcoin from poker winnings online. I buy in with a credit card.
Yeah since I made that comment I've def changed my opinions a bit haha
Why get rich slow when you can get rich fast :)
I buy about $5 of BTC a week and have for a while just as an extreme hedge. BTC is really nothing more than a general asset and I don't think will ever become a widely accepted currency. There are other cryptos that are better for use in transactions.
The problem with BTC is that the free float sucks. (think Saudi Aramco)
I don't particularly like the idea of investing into an instrument where other players have a significant leverage over me.
Unless you are a reddit level "BTC bro", I suggest staying away from BTC. The market is filled with opportunities now, why start 5 steps backwards when you can start on the starting line?
Makes sense - check the price now
Relatively early adopter of BTC here. My final project for an undergraduate CS class 10+ years ago involved mining bitcoin. Still have most of it with small transactions here and there.
I'm looking at alternative besides bitcoin, focusing on those that have a high level of liquidity, low to no transaction cost and viable use case for widespread adoption over the next decade. Many platforms/coins will and have surpassed bitcoin in functionality. Bitcoin is just the hot name that everyone knows making it the talk of the town. Bitcoin is great as speculative asset if you don't mid the risk but it is way too volatile to garner any widespread adoption as an everyday payment mechanism (for now). People don't want to have to check the price of Bitcoin to make sure they aren't in the red before making a transaction.
Have been involved w/ Bitcoin/crypto since 2011 from mining to node infra to trading.
Ran U.S. based crypto OTC desk for high growth startup and moved over to crypto hedge fund - can verify for mod. Paid for college on BTC, vacations, nice savings, live comfy etc. etc.
The amount of outright false or just moronic comments in this thread is kind of lol. I can't tell if it's true ignorance or what, but reading the comments here makes me sadpepe.gif
Anyways, obv am Bitcoin bull.. BUY BTC and go do another round of reading kids.
What in the comments do you find moronic?
I don't really give a shit about bitcoin and have never owned it, but it's hilarious seeing crypto startup bros pretend they're truly passionate about crypto technology to hide the fact they just wanna be the ones to create the next hot coin
Hot Potato is the name of the game
update from the OP: I ended up putting more than half my net worth in bitcoin after this post and am up over 100%. I do not intend on taking profits yet. Everyone who tried to tell me this was a bad idea can suck my dick :)
You may still want to cash out some of your gains now and reinvest when the price has crashed because that shit is 100% going down in the short term
I plan on taking some out somewhat soon but I think this bull run is just getting started
Using a linear scale on a Bitcoin chart betrays one's ignorance to the subject matter.
Talk to you when BTC is at 50k
imagine if I listened to your retarded advice
so how much did u put in and how much is it at now?
i put in like 30k last year and it's 80k now. net worth is like 130k so it's over half of mine as well haha
Hope it crashes to $0 and you lose everything
have fun staying poor
this is the way
I am only starting but I think that it will be the future system of the world
Gee... no one has ever said that before... we must be near the top.
Nice deal
as for me I guess that bitcoin will fall to 7-9 thousands and then will rise again
but it's not certain of course as well as trading in general :)
I don't know what you think. But I believe that now is the best time to invest in bitcoin. I did this recently with a friend of mine. Well, there was one problem, you had to find a service where you could store bitcoin, and the most important thing is that everything was safe there and you could withdraw money at any time. And my friend showed this site bitcoin tumbler . He said that he has been engaged in cryptocurrency for a long time, and believes that the future of the economy is behind this. I didn't believe it at first, but then I decided to transfer money to bitcoin and now I see how it is growing, and I am incredibly happy about it ! :)
Tesla Buys $1.5 Billion in Bitcoin
Cryptocurrency’s price soars after electric-vehicle maker says it soon expects to accept customer payments in bitcoin
https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/tesla-buys-1-5-billion-in-bitcoin-1161…
I wish I had the courage of my convictions. I've got a decent BTC position because I think long-term the price will be well into the 6 figures, but I hugely diversify, so this big jump the last few months has made almost no difference to my portfolio. :(
I’m in the same boat. Got really convicted over the last few months but bitched out and only have like 5 - 10% of my money in it
I'm a prospect so obviously take what I say with a heavy pinch of salt, but diversification will not build wealth for you.
Concentration builds wealth, diversification preserves it.
Applying this to my portfolio has led to a high conviction and concentrated approach producing superior returns over the past two years.
Are we near the top?
Ahahhaah, Infinity is not the limit!
Infinity isn't a limit in general. The word literally means 'no limit'.
People will continue to hold Bitcoin rather than use it for transactions as they believe it will increase in value. I believe this is due to the loss of confidence in the US Dollar which continues to decline in value and purchasing power.
Maybe, but I think people should be encouraged to use bitcoins like the same dollar, for example to use cashbacks. Although, as for me, the Bitcoin system is quite difficult for ordinary people to understand.
The race to be apart of the 21 million is on. Only 4 million are actively traded. Roughly 2 million still to be mined and another 4 million are lost. The other 11 million have not moved in at least 12 months.
Don't forget the steps! Murad Mahmudov lays them out on his twitter and on the famous podcast episode with Anthony Pompliano.
1. Collectible
2. Store of Value
3. Medium of Exchange
4. Unit of Account
5. Money
We are going from #1 to #2 right now, still early. Bitcoin is basically done competing with other cryptos, next up is gold and after that it's weak sovereign currencies. Gold's market cap is 12T USD, this puts BTC's price at 600k USD. Timeframe for BTC getting there is quicker than I thought. Was initially thinking 2030ish but it looks like it is going to be quicker.
A couple tips for this bull run:
- Do not sell your BTC. This is a wealth transfer event. Don't lose your seat.
- Before BTC actually passes gold, governments will know they are up next. Take a look at where you store your BTC. Governments will try to ban/heavily regulate BTC on and off ramps.
- Finally!, do not be distracted from Bitcoin's ultimate value proposition. A new form of money. Anything else is noise, altcoins, blockchain, mining, volatility, transactions, volume, etc.
Sit tight and enjoy the ride.
Why would a fake currency be worth more or equal to gold. GTFO with ur BS
hahaha this guy is so triggered that he's late to bitcoin. gold is literally a dumb rock, bitcoin will be worth much more than it. have fun staying poor
hahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah hfsp
It's not technologically capable of being a medium of exchange at scale. The BTC network can only process around 5 transactions per second.
This is incorrect. You are only thinking of 1st or base layer settlements. Other layers will do infinitely more.
Bitcoin is not competing with Venmo, Apple Pay or PayPal (3rd or 4th layer settlements). It is competing with the Fed/central banks, 1st layer settlements.
When the one-year budgets of developed countries begin to spin in the system, people will quickly find a way to fix it.
If governments move to ban BTC, won't that seriously undermine your $600k price target?
Yes. Depending on the size of the country and the level of regulation. This would only slow the flow of capital into Bitcoin not stop it.
Guys here the other day a good friend of mine advised me one site. He said there you can free bitcoin mining , but I can hardly believe that this is true. I searched on various forums about this site, and only recently found a topic where this site was discussed. The forum spoke well about the site, it turns out that you can actually mine there. In general, I am still trying, but I am in a very optimistic mood about this. Anyway, in general, for bitcoin the future, I believe, those who will not have bitcoin in the future, we will be poor. I think I'll open a new topic for discussion on this site. If you have any questions, write to your personal messages, I will try to answer you.
Have some bitcoin, but more for shits and giggles. Blockchain technology makes sense, but I don't see why a currency would be its best usage.
1. How safe/secure is it in the physical world? If its ultimately tracked somewhere "online" or "on the cloud", can't it be hacked and/or removed from someone's "ownership"?
2. If widespread adoption approaches, what's to stop a central bank from (i) outlawing it, or (ii) creating its own "coin" that can act as legal tender?
3. Do you really think that this "wealth transfer event" will happen without large & powerful groups/people trying to stop it? ie. lobbying. You even mention that "governments will try to ban/heavily regulate BTC...". What would an average person do if this were to happen?
4. There have been many instances of items going from step 1 to 2 (beanie babies). Why do you think bitcoin will manage to move from #2 to #3, and onwards?
5. Why do you think BTC would completely replace the market cap for gold?
6. Your last point on Bitcoin's value proposition being a new form of money. Why couldn't you make the same argument for any finite resource (eg. pearls)?
7. "Race for 21 million". I was under the impression that there are 21M bitcoin, where the smallest "unit" is a satoshi, which is 1 millionth...implying 2,100 trillion satoshis?
8. Given supply is fixed, how would bitcoin manage/address/effect inflation?
9. Given supply is fixed, how would bitcoin manage/address/effect liquidity?
x
Given the fixed max. supply, once it has been reached, BTC will be deflationary. Successful credit creation (which is necessary in facilitating economic growth) requires non-deflationary economic circumstances. This being said, how can BTC successfully replace fiat as money?
Pomp is a pumper. Beware.
Anyone buying dips today? I'm thinking about it, but don't want to bring my cost basis up.
I bought more yesterday and more today
What's your basis if you don't mind me asking? I'm planning on holding long term so I should just pony up. Was waiting for it to trade down for like a month straight or something, but doesn't seem to be happening lately (knock on wood).
Currently in the relatively late stages of a 4 year cycle, give or take a few months when you look at proximity to halvings. "Popular" TA suggests we can dip to as low as $42k in the short term before going back up with strong conviction. We peak probably around anywhere between October '21/Mar '22 is my guess. $100k+ BTC probably imminent this cycle, we'll see. Whether or not you believe in its fundamental valuations of being "fairly priced" or not, market psychology and greed offers plenty of opportunities to make profits. Not financial advice. I'll just leave it at this and see how this ages by EOY lol.
There's 8-9 months left in this bull cycle. People have a hard time wrapping their head around parabolic growth but the biggest gains are still to come. Peak should be $250k minimum and potentially much much higher.
how much you hold
250k dollars is certainly a lot dude, but in theory this mark can reach a million.
Was reading The House of Morgan the other day and this crypto boom is really similar to how joe schmos were getting rich off railroad stock speculation during JP Morgan's day.
This thread doesn't belong on a financial forum like WSO; I gave you MS (spam) as a result
have fun staying poor
imagine shitting on a scarce asset with a 200% annual return over the past decade
*fake asset
Ahahah, that's funny to hear, but it's true. :D
whats everyone buying
holding BC, Compound, Uniswap, AAVE and some XRPs.
BTC, ETH, ETH2, and POLY. Looking for ideas tho.
Totally agree with you, thanks for sharing!
hahahahahha
im up 400% from my initial investment and 30% from buying the dip hahahahah
What do you guys think of the sustainability/environmental factor for Bitcoin mining? It’s a kind of a waste of energy and creates nothing. It’s not a product nor a service, what value does it add to society given it is not used as a traditional currency and is not trending in that direction. The tech is cool and has numerous applications, but it’s use as a legitimate currency is hard to comprehend.
Let me know what you guys think. With the large push towards alternative energy sources in the long term, digital currency mining doesn’t exactly play well in this narrative.
Definitely right about the narrative, which they might be able to change.
However, the narrative is more a stupid religion than anything else. The author of the article linked below has written a good book and articles on the issue. Tons of citations.
https://environmentalprogress.org/big-news/2020/6/29/on-behalf-of-envir…
Bitcoin is not competing to be a currency. It is competing as an asset.
The value add is enormous and the energy is not wasted at all. The energy used protects the network and gives the highest level property rights to all 8 billion people on the planet.
The economic incentives to mine bitcoin are too strong for people to care about climate change. As one jurisdiction outlaws it others will allow it and the miners will go there.
Cryptocurrency Industry Overview of Select Markets
Introduction to Bitcoins, Ethereum, Litecoins, and the Blockchain
Bitcoin
Ethereum
Litecoin
Blockchain
Overview of the Bitcoin Network’s Operations
Summary of a Bitcoin Transaction
Bitcoin Mining and Creation of New Bitcoins
Mining Process
Serviceable Addressable Market "SAM" (Crypocurrency)
Total Addressable Market "TAM" (Crypocurrency)
Cryptocurrency Industry Statistics & Projections:
Crypocurrency is a Burgeoning Asset Class Requiring Bespoke Solutions
Competitive Landscape (Crypocurrency)
Competitive Landscape: Capabilities
Bakkt, Robinhood, Coinbase, Square, Cashapp, PayPal, Rakuten, Revolut
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Holding a coin called LRC/Loopring. Currently up over 100%. Main driver for the increase is a potential partnership with GameStop.
Also holding LRC. Got in under a dollar
Nice bro! I’m in at 1.33 - when are you planning to sell?
also holding a new coin. I swapped btc for it. as of now, I only buy new coins because they have more potential than old ones. And if you check the numbers, you’ll see that I’m absolutely right. Bitcoin keeps falling, now it’s 49K. BNB also falls in this category, although it has started rising a little but it’s still at 560. But look at DEXE and see that it’s at 17 today and my cash is still pumping. Now the other coin that I have faith in is SQUIDGROW. The problem is that not everyone knows all these coins. But I get it, there are tons of coins out there.
Now is good time to buy even more bitcoins, because the price dropped almost 2 times.
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