Workplace bullying or totally normal
Background:
- I'm a 3rd year analyst working in a family office.
- No finance background whatsoever; was hired for my STEM background.
- First 2.5 years job duties were mainly just evaluating new fund managers, occasional DD on co-investment deals, updates on public & private positions. We only invested in private names during this time and the public book was left untouched.
- No real 'training' involved (mostly just Googling shit 90% of the time), team of one CIO, one head of research, three fresh grad juniors (including me; others studied finance in school). CIO and head of research busy most of the time with the family's public list co.
Context / Situation (sorry for the long post!!):
- We had a new junior (no finance background, in STEM only) and a new senior with a buyside public equities background joined over the past year. Immediately after joining, the senior declares that the place is a complete mess (because none of us juniors knows anything about public port mgmt / investing publicly) and starts revamping the public book.
- Fair comment; I knew I know jackshit so I was eager to learn from him and told him so.
- For the first two weeks, when I asked him a question (not time sensitive matters) and it was something I couldn't get an accurate answer on Google, he would basically say, "Why are you so stupid. Think harder." Again, fair statement maybe. When I'd ask if he could proof-read my work before presenting to the CIO, he'd say, "I don't care, I'm not reading it. Just proofread and present." If there are mistakes during the presentation, he'd chew me out after the meeting and say, "Why did you make this mistake, are you fucking stupid. Did you not think."
- Lately, I've been called a rotation of "slow, stupid, useless, worthless, offputting, fucking retarded" almost every other day, after I ask him questions/made mistakes. In my defense, I don't think its particularly egregious mistakes; like only showing a fund's reported net TVPI and not showing our internal gross TVPI estimates when doing quarterly updates. But maybe it's a really big deal? Idk how other firms work.
- I've been getting easily anxious recently, and I keep dragging my feet on my work because I'm so desperate to get it right, only to get inadvertently yelled at after the meetings. Also finding it harder and harder to grasp concepts, almost like I have brain fog (idk post covid symptoms maybe). Sometimes I just get unwillingly emotional and I need to go to the toilet to just cry a little before calming myself down lol.
- Just wanted to know if this is normal behaviour for investment firms and I should expect this wherever I go, and should I toughen myself up and deal with it lol. I made mistakes and I absolutely own up to them, but it just gets extremely demotivating to hear a barrage of 'are you fucking idiotic and have shit for brains' after criticism.
Not normal. Being treated like a pile of dog poop is not normal. A work environment that makes you cry at a toilet is not normal. Start looking for other jobs
Yah, I'm going to second the comment and what will probably be a stream of comments. That's the textbook definition of toxic work environment. If the supervisor (or direct report) has no interest in training or mentoring you and can't even be bothered to literally supervise then it's a sh*t situation to be in. I'm not sure what your options are for rerecruitment, but I'd honestly even roll the dice with quitting (if you can take on the financial burden of rerecruiting) just because the mental anguish of being called some synonym of incompetent is not worth it.
Yea, he said to me, ‘I’m not interested in teaching anyone. I’m just here to make money, you guys can fuck off and I don’t care about other stuff.’ It’s a very weird setup rn, because the CIO sorta expects him to mentor us, but he’s also actively resisting.
Sounds awful, no this is not remotely geared towards making you better or your performance within the team better. Leave
Had more or less an identical experience to you at a large asset manager (think TRowe/Dodge&Cox/Sixth Street).
The senior I worked for directly was on my ass 24/7 from the start (no other analyst/associate/vp on team) and refused to train me despite my being in an analyst training program. Got laid off after 3 months on the job largely because I was expected to perform at the level of the person I replaced who had 7 years of previous buy side experience despite my being fresh out of school. I was the second junior person that got laid off within a year working in this specific group (last guy made it 6 months).
As others have said I’d recommend applying elsewhere immediately even if you’re not in danger of getting laid off in the near term. I made the mistake of trying to make things work and talk it out with this person professionally who said all the right things but would then do the opposite. Towards the end this guy ended up going to HR behind my and my others bosses backs which was the final nail in my coffin there.
Haven’t been able to find anything for over a year now and have burned through all of my savings. Torn as to whether or not I should stay in the industry after that experience as both of our stories from most people I’ve spoken with are not normal but also not entirely unheard of.
Thanks for sharing. Yep, I'm actively applying now while still learning whatever I can/using the resources at work. I still have faith that there are better and more qualified mentors/seniors in the industry and not all are assholes like what you/I faced, so good luck and hang in there man.
This was definitely sixth st lol
Why not tell back when he yells at you or tell a superior? You’re at a family office, so either you stand up for yourself or leave. There is no hr.
In my opinion it’s a no win situation.
Even if you’re completely right these kinds of guys have a tendency to be able to dish it out but not take it back. So if you were to yell back at them you run the risk of making a permanent enemy in the business or giving this guy the ammo to escalate to higher ups putting you in a bad position that could start the paper trail leading to your lay off.
OP also can’t go to a superior without trying to address the issue with this guy first. They’re both adults and you need to give the other person the opportunity to course correct prior to escalating to higher up’s. If he were to go right above this guy to the CIO or Head of Research he runs the risk of losing respect from all parties and being labeled as the kind of person nobody wants to work with.
You’re absolutely spot on. The (cultural and social) hierarchy in my office is super stifling. I live in somewhere in Asia, which also means that the finance community is small enough that everyone sorta knows everyone
This type of character is common enough that you should expect to run into at least one of them at any large enough firm you are at. But it is uncommon to have this type of character as your boss.
Echoing the other posts here that you should move on, but I would caution that having a perfect boss/mentor is rare.
People are busy, especially when they are thrown into a hot mess. Even the teaching type will have a hard time teaching in the environment you are in.
Don't think OP did himself by framing the question like "I couldn't find the answer on Google, so give it to me."
The better question would be "What would be a good place for me to start in order to teach myself about X".
Good luck in your next venture.
Thank you.
This is not normal. Unfortunately people like this exist in the industry – like many others on this thread, I had an identical experience to you.
Quick advice, find a new job asap. You can avoid the bad eggs with serious due diligence in future interview processes (calling ex-employees of the firm and of your to-be boss).
I do just want to highlight a few things…..
Good luck out there to all!
People say this is not normal…. But it seems all too common. I have had experiences in the past when a md gives poor guidance on tasks and gives vague answers, responses like “just move the thing and add the stuff back” type answers that really don’t help then getting called shit for brains in front of 5 people when the part I asked for guidance on wasn’t the “thing” or the “stuff” he meant. So I definitely understand the feeling of hot water in your chest when you are embarrassed in front of a bunch of people or screamed at for something that was caused by shitty communication. You just gotta be tough and keep your cool and look to move on to find managers who are kind and give clear communication. You will appreciate these people sm more once you find them
I was once in a similar situation and it is tough to deal with a superior who is unfortunately not made to lead nor teach people.
1. Feedback - I understand the hierarchy and tough position to give feedback, but sometimes it simply feels good to speak the truth and stand behind your values. It is not OK to treat you like that. If you are OK with moving on, thus accepting that this can go wrong, ask him for a meeting / sitdown together to discuss. As him when he is free and go to a closed conference room together (I advise not to do it out in public, he will be mainly concerned about his reputation and this conversation is better to be held in a private room. Give helpful feedback and examples, which are important. There are some great sources out there on how to give helpful feedback. Sidenote: This might go wrong, even if you formulate it soft and packaged with glitter, people with a high ego can backfire at you, especially when they are not used to it, so it is important that you are OK with either outcomes.
2. Mentor - try to find a mentor in the company that you can ask about this situation and who might be able to help you. In addition, this mentor might be able to teach you the skills you need for the job and what is supposed to be done by your supervisor.
3. Don't take it personal - People who are behaving like your supervisor are usually narcissists who feel very insecure deep down and thus have to treat anybody around them like shit. Don't make his feedback part of your own identity and personality. Distance yourself, talk with your colleagues. My managing director used to gaslight me which completely confused me and really hit me hard until my team openly shared that they are having exactly the same experience with him.
4. Anxiety Emergency Hacks - breathwork in general and especially if you feel like crying on the toilet, 10min gratitude meditations, and (I'm not joking here) focusing on positive thoughts helps wonders. Your mind cannot focus on the negative and positive on the same time. If you shift from the inner dialogue of yelling at him or angrily speaking up about his qualities as a boss, focus on what you have. Right now a job with financial security and a good resume. A roof over your head, enough food to fill you up, a phone in your pocket, etc. etc. In addition, ask yourself better questions, instead of "why is he such a dick?" ask "why is it so easy to work with my boss?" "Why is it so easy for me to deal with the difficult situation?" "Why is the work environment improving drastically for me?" - this might sounds nuts at first but your subconcious starts working on potential solutions for you instead of attracting more anger. I wrote a few more down in another WSO post, which might help you (I am not allowed to share the link -.- but you can simply go over activities on my profile if it interests you).
There are many of us who have been in this situation and it is definitely not an easy one. I hope you will find a solution soon!
abuse, report
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