Monkey to Millions | John (Session 6) - Volume over Perfection - Feb 14, 2020
About
In this session, we learn that John didn't get the offer after a super day at an investment bank but that this setback has motivated him to continue his networking efforts. In this chat, I really challenge him to significantly increase his volume of outreach to at least two hours every day and we walk through some searches he could be using on Sales Navigator in LinkedIn to find people that are relevant to him. Now that he isn't in his Fall internship, his main focus should be on his job search and his classes...in that order!
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WSO Podcast (Episode 6) Transcript:
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:04] Well. Hello and welcome, I'm Patrick Curtis, chief monkey of Wall Street Oasis, and this is monkey to millions. A show where you get a front row seat as I mentor young students and professionals to try and help them break into their dream jobs in the first cohort. You'll meet four students, all preparing for intense job interviews while trying to also balance a personal life and schoolwork. The goal of this show is to shine a light on the struggles of trying to break into competitive positions with a non-traditional background and to give you a roadmap for your own success. My hope is that as you get to know these four impressive students, you're inspired to dream big. Remember, these are real people, and this is their true story. Let's get to it. In this session, we learn that John didn't get the offer after Super Day at an investment bank, but that this setback has motivated him to continue his networking efforts. In this chat, I really challenge him to significantly increase his volume of outreach to at least two hours every day, and we walk through some searches. He could be using on the Sales Navigator and LinkedIn to find people that are relevant to him. Now that he isn't in his fall internship, his main focus should be on his job search and his classes in that order. Enjoy. All right, dude. John, what's going on? And happy Valentine's Day. Happy Valentine's Day to you, too. You're in a very romantic, beautiful rooftop view. Hopefully, you have it right by the beach. Hopefully, you have a date tonight if you don't. Maybe we can help you out on that on that front. Yeah. I mean, my girlfriend are going to hang out over the weekend. Unfortunately, I have a midterm later today and a paper due tonight, so I can't do too much. They're not very. Yeah, no. Not romantic at all. Yeah, my professors really did that on purpose. So yeah, that's is what it is. But so far this week, it's been pretty busy, busy at two midterms yesterday. So are they in the paper tonight? So I heard back from the boutique in L.A. from the Super Day had two weeks ago, and that was a no go.
John: [00:02:26] I thought I did well. Overall, I killed the technical. There was probably like one or two parts that I feel like kind of held me back. One was probably like my lack of experience in the tech space because they were solely focused on like TMT or the like heavy emphasis on tech. And they asked me, like they asked me one question about like if I was building up like a top-down revenue model and I was trying to forecast something and they're like, What questions would you ask your client to kind of get some info on how to do that? And I kind of like bomb that one. I was like talking about like just focus towards like a SaaS company. I can only go as far as like churn rates and number of subscriptions, and there's a lot more that I could have probably prepped for. But I wasn't expecting that specifically, and I probably should have. It just killed me. And then the model had a modelling portion of the day and I thought I did OK when the senior analyst came in and he was like reviewing it. And he said I did better than most, but I didn't kill it. So maybe somebody came in the next day and killed it. So who knows?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:03:31] Tell me about what that what was that test, just like a three statement model? Yeah, as we say my model, I
John: [00:03:35] Thought I did fine. They were like some parts where I was like stress-free time and like, I would make one error. And then the whole thing would mess up. So I had to go back and do that. So that kind of like stump me. But other than that, like I thought I did, I was like studying for quite a bit using the Wall Street prep modelling guide. So are you guys?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:03:55] Are you using your mouse when you're doing that? No, they didn't. They didn't give me a mouse. Didn't give you a mouse. Good. So do you feel like are you comfortable? Are you getting faster with the quickies and everything? Yeah, yeah, I've
John: [00:04:07] Definitely feel it. So I kind of want to go through that guide again just to get a grasp of the model a little better before jumping on to other models. So I think that'll definitely help like further down the line to when I do eventually start anyway.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:20] Yeah, it's helpful if you hit the ground running and you're just like a master and excel with all the quick keys, it's a huge difference. It's the one thing, it's the one tool you're going to be in, like 50 plus hours a week out of the 90 or whatever you're going to be working. Yeah. So OK. So that was tough. So you made it to Super Day, which is great. When was that? When was that Super Day? Two pages ago to Friday's. Ok, so then you heard last week there was a no-go. Did they say, did they give you any feedback besides like, it sounds like you knew kind of the revenue build on a SAS business was tough for you? Yeah, yeah. You know the answer to that question now. He kind of gave me like some like answers, but I kind of forgot I was like subscriptions. What type of subscribers you have, like a long-term short term? What type of subscription are they purchasing, premium or not? Premium and churn rates and a bunch of other stuff that I couldn't really tell you. Like some more jargon? I know you've been sick and even sick, but how is the other stuff going like? So you had that one. What else is in the pipeline? Anything else right now? There is so, yeah, there are a couple. Things, actually. So there is a tech shop in Palo Alto. They're like small boutiques that I have. I actually started networking a lot after that Super Day just because on the off chance, you know, I didn't get it. So I have a person,
John: [00:05:45] Actually a few phone calls next week. So I have a shop in Palo Alto Tech shop. I'll probably be way more prepared for it now that I understand what's going to happen. There is actually a shop down here, a middle-market shop in Irvine that just brought on a new director, and she was actually UCI alum and I reached out to her. It was kind of just like weird timing that she just happened to, like hop on and she actually said that like, Yeah, I'm starting to build a team here, like, let's have a call next week, so I'm going to take that really seriously. And then I started looking at other things as well. Next week, I have a first-round interview. It's like a fund of funds. You told me to start looking for other things aside from investment banking, so I was looking for an investment analyst role at a fund of funds here in Irvine as well. And then also an equity research-rich position in New York with, I think, a pretty. We talked about this, I feel like before.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:06:42] Yeah, dude. If you can get to New York, even if it's equity research, anything fund of funds, it's kind of. It's huge because you're in New York. Yeah, yeah. Like you could easily lateral after a year. It's not an issue. It really isn't an issue because once you've been working for a year and it's somewhat related skill set, whether it's transaction advisory services at the Big Four, whether it's equity research, something that shows you're doing some valuation work or some something relevant to banking, you should be able to get into a middle-market with some really good network, with some strong networking in New York because you're you can literally get coffee with anybody. Yeah, yeah. So that's the thing. So location matters in the sense of like if you are going to not take a banking gig right after
John: [00:07:31] Or you're not if
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:32] You don't land it, which is not uncommon coming out of SEIU. And if you're a great student and look, you're learning a lot, you're getting better at interviewing. I assume after doing all this, like think back like for more confident. Yeah, I'm more confident with everything like all around, like technical and behavioural as well. So I feel like, I mean, the more I keep going further, I keep going. So I feel like it has to come soon. Well, that comes across to you in your interviews. As you get more confidence, you actually relax a little bit more and you can show more of your personality versus being like, Oh, no, like what's good? Yeah, definitely. And then you don't come across as likable. You've got to be careful with the seeming to cash like, Oh, he's cocky kind of thing.
John: [00:08:21] So it was funny.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:23] Just release something on LinkedIn. It was a highlight of kind of the discussion of what goes on after all the candidates leave. I read that. Did you see that one kid was too cocky? The other one was like, had no personality? Was it boring? Stiff? He was solid. But no, all of it. No personality. Yeah, exactly. So there's a happy. There's a happy medium in there, so I think that's the trick, and the more reps you get, the more comfortable you're going to get. And don't let the rejections or the no's kind of dissuade you because I can tell you, I got rejected probably 16, 17 times before I got the yes, but it was done. It was deserved. Yeah, I mean, I won. This last one probably hurt the most just because it's the furthest. I got an investment-making process. Aside from like my internships, my full-time recruiting someone got hurt the most. But, you know, bouncing back, I already feel better about the future possibility. So this Irvine alum, where she located.
John: [00:09:30] Um, she's an Irvine, so she was at like a shop in Newport Beach, like a small shop, and now she's like a little market shop in Irvine. I think they have. I think their HQ is in Irvine, but they might have another. Location as well.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:47] Ok, so you're going to try to. I was looking at it's been amazing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So they have they have an office in New York as well. So they're in Irvine, in New York with HQ and. Hi, everybody. That's awesome. Yeah, that could be. It could be a perfect place to start. I mean, nice, there's another analyst over there, I know well, like I said, there's a small shop and they have another handle somebody who's from UCI been trying to reach out to him, but he hasn't responded. So I'm probably going to send him a follow-up next week. So yeah, just keep harassing. Yeah.
John: [00:10:23] In a friendly way, in a friendly
Patrick (CEO of WSO):: [00:10:24] Way, and not too frequently like not to back to back, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Also, one thing I want to run by you. Sorry, I don't mean to cut you off. No, go ahead. All this retreating, I notice that there's still a couple like summer analyst spots open for 20 20 like around the area. And I was I just want to hear your thought process. I'm like, What would you think if someone in my position decided to go for like a plus one masters in finance and then accept one of those roles? Because I have been building a pretty strong connection with one of the associates in DPS at Moss Adams here in Irvine, and he pushed up my resume to the MD for the summer role. And I told them like, Oh, I was thinking, just like when I was just like, Yeah, I was thinking about maybe doing the plus one. And like, I just started
John: [00:11:13] Thinking about it like this week as a possibility. So I just wanted
to hear what you think
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:18] In the sense of it gives you another round of shot. It gives you another year to go through it. Yeah. Plus Cody, like, I'm still going to shoot for full time. I got rather like,
John: [00:11:27] Of course, I'd rather take off first, but let's say I don't get it.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:30] And my concern and my concern with the masters in finance is it's a pretty new degree and it's expensive. From what I know, yeah, yeah, it's expensive. It's a new degree. And also it's no guarantee of getting in. I think if you know early on that, yeah, you want banking, it can help because you get another bite at the apple in terms of internships. It's especially good for kids who kind of learn about it in banking like junior and senior year when it's kind of too late. Yeah, it can be good, but it's an expensive thing. So like, I would really hesitate to encourage you to do that. Take out. Are you taking out loans right now? No, fortunately. So your parents are helping you out? Yeah, tremendously. So, yeah, it's just how much of the stress is on them, you know what I mean? Yeah. So like. I guess optionality is good to have. Would you be going when you say a plus one, what did you stay, you see? Or would you be able to get into? I mean, I looked at like local schools to like USC and UCLA, but. I don't know, it's just I think their applications are about to close very soon while UCI, they have two more application dates. What about like? I'm trying to think, what are the
John: [00:12:53] Top messages and
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:54] Finance programs, what about like shooting higher? Because, like you already have the UCI network, the UCI alum, I think there's more value-added to go somewhere else. Yeah. And if the costs are similar or within five or ten thousand the same ones, forty-one is 50 like I would go over the fifty K just to get it. If it's a strong school, Ok, I'll look into that. But yeah, I mean, if you have time like first Choice, yeah, it's not really First Choice, you know? Yeah. I wouldn't do it for the second bite of the apple, I mean, the only thing you could say to them is I'm willing to do an internship. You know, even if there's no full-time right after excuse gives me more time about money, yeah, it helps a little bit longer. And then when you're just doing the internship, you can just be networking like your whole job will be an internship. There's no school at that point. There's no spring. I mean, it's a little risky because you could come out of that somewhere and they're like, Sorry, there's no full time or the economy can go down and then you're really screwed.
John: [00:13:59] That, yeah,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:00] So I mean, I think I think it's one of those things where you have to like weigh the pros and cons, I would say if you can get into a top MSF, yes. And like you go into it like knowing. Great. But I would do it, I would like hold it off from committing and writing that first cheque as long as you can to see if you can just get the job. Yeah, yeah. No, definitely that's that was the plan. Like when until like in the final application date
John: [00:14:27] For any school that I try to apply to. But yeah, I'm for sure it's still gunning for that full time. It was just a thought that I had this past week.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:35] Yeah, it's not bad. It's not a bad thought because things are what is mid-February. The full-time spots are probably getting pretty full. But you know, I've talked to a lot of people. Sometimes people are hiring last minute, especially the boutiques often don't know when there's a need, sometimes in the summer or they give a bonus
John: [00:14:55] And then
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:56] People, people peace
John: [00:14:57] Out and all of a
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:58] Sudden they have an opening. Yeah. For those people that, like are looking for like as in the. Do they tend to look for
John: [00:15:07] New college grads, or do they mostly look for lateral hires?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:13] Almost all of them look for
John: [00:15:14] Lateral hires, but
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:16] I will say that oftentimes they can't find the lateral hires, so they end up eventually hiring right out of college. Last choice? Well, yeah, I mean, you guys are coming in. You don't really have like they have to teach you or train you up. If you can convince them through the networking that like you have the modeling skills like you're going to be able to hit the ground running faster than like a typical college kid, then I think, you know, you can assuage their fears a little bit, but that's just all how you carry yourself and how you interview and showing that you're a sharp guy and that you're likable. I think that's really what it takes. So there's no like fast rule or set rule, especially with these small boutiques. It's like all over the map. There are obviously there are some that do have a small little program that they put like two interns through a year or three interns through a year. I know Grace got an internship in New York, and she it's like a really it's a small boutique, but like there's only typically like one or two interns at a time.
John: [00:16:20] And they work through the
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:16:21] Year while they're in school. Oh, really? So she's be working throughout the year. Yeah. So she's working there like only about 15 hours during the week now. But then in the summer, it'll be more like a full time. That's awesome, though, that she gets the experience for the year. That's awesome. Yeah, she gets through the year and she's a freshman, so she's going to have that to just like crush it recruiting she. But she's had a she's at a non-target, too. She's, you know, she's at a place that's getting stronger each year, but historically it hasn't sent to front office banking. Yeah, that's so awesome. Yeah, I mean, it's easier when you're starting younger, right? I mean, people are always like, it's funny. I had an interview with the guy. He's like, Yeah, people tell you like, Oh, you have time to figure it out. They're like, they're lying. Like, the kids who get the job and get the offers are the ones who like, knew coming into
John: [00:17:12] College like, this is what I want to do.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:14] He's like, It's a lie. I don't have time. It just gets harder. There's a small percent that, like I've read like on. So there's a small percent, they're like, Oh, can I still get into baking like
John: [00:17:25] 20 years out? Like, like, I don't know,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:29] Am I too old and it's never too old? There's never alike, no, it's impossible. It's just you're stacking odds against yourself. The longer you wait and the longer you don't get in, the longer you know which like, I still get emails from kids who are like, I'm interested in the kind of like private equity banking, hedge funds.
John: [00:17:45] They're like all over the map, asset management,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:47] Maybe like you can decide and go or they'll just say, like finance. Like, they'll be like, Fine, I'm interested in finance. I'm like, You're a long way to go, man. I know that's like a huge red flag to me. I'm like, Oh man, this person, just they say that I want a career in finance, like it's such a huge umbrella term that to me, they don't really know what they want because they haven't done the research to know what each job is like. Yeah, that makes sense. And so, yeah, and I think you're it sounds like when they're hit with the brutal reality. Yeah, I mean, it sounds like you're so are you reaching mostly through LinkedIn? How are you
John: [00:18:27] Doing these networking link to an email? So I mean, primarily, I find like everybody on LinkedIn. And if you know, then I jump to their website, go through the team. Like if it's a small group, usually they have like a team section and then I'll find their email and hit them up. Usually, I tend to hit up the older individuals like beeps and MDS via email and then the younger people on LinkedIn, like the analysts and the associates. But I kind of like flip-flop back and forth, and I've been getting a lot of responses on LinkedIn with the younger individual just because I feel like I'm more active on it. Yeah, so that sounds good. Actually, the interview I have with the shop in Palo alto was through networking via LinkedIn.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:13] Awesome, and did you? How many people per week do you think you're reaching out to or connecting with? What are your connections up to, should I look? Uh, nine hundred twenty plus. Ok. They definitely jumped in the past two weeks, like almost maybe like seventy-five to one hundred in the past two weeks, I almost wish we could like reverse your internship and like so it would have jumped. Five months ago, it's like two thousand, but you're busy, right? You were doing school and
John: [00:19:46] You were
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:47] Doing your internship, which is a good internship to have. Yeah, I think the internship definitely helped me in the office. Down there were super helpful and super good. I definitely learned a lot and it was great speaking points throughout the interview process with the tech bank in L.A. And they're so kind enough to. I don't know if it's probably not common throughout, but like they also sent a letter to the guys in L.A. after my Super Day. So that was super, super nice. That's great. And there's still no real analyst opening for the L.A. Position right now. They're super small. Say they're super small. Cool. Yeah, I'm trying to think of like how you can get aggressive to. I mean, if you think about it. They're super small. But would they let you call yourself, let's say worse comes to worse. Worst case scenario, you're like, Hey, I'm willing to go do a masters to potentially spend $50000 more because you have to like. So I'm willing to spend
John: [00:20:51] Thousand dollars to pay
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:53] To have another shot at recruiting. What if you were to go to one of these boutiques
John: [00:20:57] Like the one in L.A.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:00] And say, Yeah, I know you guys are really small. You don't need anybody. What if I just work for free? Mm hmm. Over the summer or in general, be like just let me call myself an investment banking analyst, Okay? Instead of an intern, because I can tell you for a fact, if you worked for six months even or even if you did a year where your parents, you're just living cheaply, you're like just getting that experience on your resume that changes everything. Cup of noodles. It changes, but it changes everything. It changes your whole trajectory like it's the pay is totally inconsequential in your first year. Yeah, yeah. I figured like, I'm not going can pay you 50k or you can pay 50 K
John: [00:21:44] To get a masters.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:45] That means very little in terms of education, but it's just really another re-up on OCR. Or if you could just somehow find a way to get a banking job where you're doing relevant work because it has nothing to do with, it's really about relevant work. That's all it is in networking. So if you can get the relevant work in any way, shape or form and make it look like, Hey, I've done a year of actual investment banking work and I'm not just an intern. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Even if you had to pay for that experience, like I would tell everybody, if
John: [00:22:16] You if you could
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:17] Even potentially think to afford masters, I would often say, if you can get it, if you can pay, if you paid for that job, I would tell you, like, pay for the job, pay them to let you work there. Like that's how crazy.
John: [00:22:32] Yeah, that's
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:34] How that's how much more valuable it is. Because then it's then you have the resume and you're going to get try to get picked off by all these middle-market firms. They're going to have lateral hires because you're going to be active in recruiting and networking. So you're going to hear about these lateral jobs and then you'll be like, Oh, yeah, I worked on this deal. I worked on this deal. All of a sudden, you have the transaction experience. All of a sudden they're like,
John: [00:22:53] Oh, this kid's great.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:54] They don't need to know that you're working for a pittance or whatever. Yeah. So how do you suggest I go ahead and do that?
John: [00:23:01] Then, like, do my networking be like, hey, like, like first or maybe second point of contact, maybe second point of contact, like, hey, like this is what I'm trying to do.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:10] Well, OK. So for example, this place that. That you made to Super Day with. And they said it's not going to work out. The hiring manager or whatever. See, the problem is, I don't think they can hire you for free. It's like, Yeah. So it's like oftentimes it's more of that, although I'll tell you a really small place with like one or two people. I've heard nightmare stories where they're paying. I had a guy on who was like, got his MBA at I can't remember where John Hopkins he was straight from. Indiana, got his MBA at John Hopkins because John Hopkins is a well-known brand. So he thought it was going to, like,
John: [00:23:53] Set him up for banking, couldn't get
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:54] In and ended up at this tiny boutique with like basically one guy doing deals and the guy was working
John: [00:23:59] Him like a dog,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:00] Like ninety hours a week, he was getting paid a thousand like a month. That's brutal. That's pretty cool. And eventually he like moved unilaterally, moved up and lateral. And now he's, you know, at a big for doing M&A work and stuff like that. And he has got a great job. But those types of stories. There's less extreme versions of that.
John: [00:24:24] Mm-hmm.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): v[00:24:24] That where if you work 60 hours a week and you're getting paid even like just a stipend, a low stipend, you could almost say something like that. People that to the place you might be like, really appreciate all your time. Just want. You know, I'm. I am determined to work in investment banking, it's something they want to do. If there is any other
John: [00:24:47] Alternative thing besides the analyst
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:49] Program, whether that's an extended internship or a support to the analysts, it's something that I would be happy to do and I could be more cost effective because I don't need to be paid or I can be paid extremely low salary because I value, I value the experience and the skill set that it's going to bring me and not the not the pay. Okay, I'll give it a go. I think if you say something that I'd be happy
John: [00:25:14] To read through
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:15] That email, there's really no. All it's showing is that you're
John: [00:25:18] Hungry and that you don't
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:20] Care about the pay or you just care about the experience. Yeah, if you're willing to do that. It may actually. Leave an imprint such as the point is, if they do have an analyst at opening like in a few months or something happens and they're getting busier than they expected, they may be like, let's actually bring that guy. Let's talk to John again, because he seemed like ready to go, raring to go. You know, I say that a lot to like as you're ending interviews really show that you want it and really communicate that directly. How you close is really important, not just like the handshake in the eye contact and all that stuff,
John: [00:25:58] But like just being like, Well,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:01] You know, it's great. It's really great to meet you. I'm really sorry if there's just let you know, like, I really do want this job. I think, you know, I work extremely hard for you guys,
John: [00:26:12] And I'd love to be part of the team.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:14] Just something like direct like that is actually can go a long way. They're like kind of on the edge about your candidacy to kind of push it over. Yeah, that makes sense to get any offer to start doing that for future interviews, too. Yeah, because a lot of people will just kind of go through the motions and be like, Hey, great to meet you. Yeah, yeah. And they're a little timid. You're a little shy. You're a little nice guy. Yeah, exactly. See you later. Please hire me. I hope instead of like, you've got to have a little bit of aggression in there. And just to let them do that, like, you're hungry for it because it's a tough job. Yeah. Sorry. Okay, sounds good. Give it a go. I'll write up the email and shoot it over to you. So yes, over and over to me, I don't see any
John: [00:26:53] Harm in it as long as it
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:55] Doesn't sound desperate. We're going to make sure it sounds like you just really want it and you're willing to work like because the way I see it, it really doesn't matter. Like, I would tell you to pay $50000 to a bank to let you work there for a year rather than pay for a masters. Like, I would honestly tell you that. Yeah, that makes sense, because the skill, the brand value, the deals, the transaction get on your resume are about 10 times more valuable than having a master's degree. I hear you sounds crazy, but like that's what people care about. Can he hit the ground running and then any lateral position in banking? It's going to be fair game for you to attack and then any place that is hiring it and even a middle market shop that, let's say, lost a bunch of analysts after a bonus season, you'd be like, Hey, we're willing to look at boutique people, but they have to have at least a year experience. And then, boom, you're like, they're like, Hey, that's me. I'm ready. And then you'll actually get paid. Yeah, let's go places. So I know you don't really care, I know you're not like. Is it like going after only places that
John: [00:28:08] Pay well because it's all standardized? But I think even
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:12] Emphasizing that like leaning into that more could be a way
John: [00:28:14] To.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:17] To potentially open up spots, especially for like this, this Ervine, this smaller hey, we're starting to look for people, especially for companies like that, because cost does matter to them. Yeah, I can show you their name. Sure, offline. Sure. Maybe you can take a look at them and see what's going on. Yeah, because if it's a middle-market, they probably won't do it. But I think it shows I would do that up front. I would do it if, like, like you said, the second or third meeting, maybe even during the Super
John: [00:28:47] Day, just to let
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:48] Them know that like you are, you're really serious about this.
John: [00:28:51] And, you know, even if you had to
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:53] Work for free. That's not what matters to you. The pay is not what matters. It matters. Just getting that first job right out of school such that you can learn and be around people like them and learn how they conduct themselves and how they do it. And then you'll soon learn that it's all about eating shit, shit flowing downhill, PowerPoint and excel that work. But that doesn't matter, because then you'll be fine. Yeah, but then it doesn't matter, because then you're showing it's basically signalling to every other bank. Out there that you have that experience. Yeah. And you said you would do
John: [00:29:27] This after the first phone call, or maybe I don't do in the first day,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:31] Ok, don't in the first try to try to kind of just go through the standard things, especially if you have an alumni. I mean, be hungry, like I said and close with that, I close with the, you know, I really would love this, the job. I think, you know, I work extremely hard for you. And I know that you know, at a smaller firm, you know, if you're talking like boutique-like five, five and 10 man shop, I think talking
John: [00:29:55] About like pay not
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:29:57] Mattering is will actually resonate at a middle-market if it's like 20, 50, 100 bankers and think less so. So it kind of depends how big the shop is
John: [00:30:08] Because they become a little
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:10] Less price sensitive if they're hiring
John: [00:30:11] Like ten analysts. Yeah, that makes sense. Ok, I got it. Sounds good. Yeah, I mean, little stump of the road, but I'm still excited to push forward. So it's been a fun process and I'm still hungry. So how many?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:25] How many places? How many people are you like reaching out to per week? Would you say now you're up to nine hundred connections? But yeah, just this past week alone, I feel like I reached out to at least 10 places, maybe like one or two at each, just because I maybe wouldn't get a response at one and send another. How many, but how many like are you doing it through like connection requests or LinkedIn emails? Yeah. Well, like I said, it's half email, like half LinkedIn. LinkedIn has been more responsive and then emails
John: [00:30:58] Not so much like emails like thirty-five percent. Right. Are you doing? Fifty-five am writing emails that takes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, he's not. Yeah, it's definitely been working, but it takes like I usually like my follow-ups are one week. Send the initial email next week, follow up and then I'll wait like maybe one and a half to two weeks and they'll send like a third email and then maybe like another two weeks. So yeah, usually like on that third or. Second, second and third have been like my sweet spots. Yeah, so it's like I'm getting near that point right now for most of these people since my interview, so I should start hearing back from the email soon.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:43] Cool. Ok. Yeah. And there's something to be said for scaling up like your LinkedIn or doing it more efficiently. Like, I feel like you're. You're doing the emails, you're doing the research, going to the site and then you're kind of doing, you're splitting it a little bit, you're doing some LinkedIn and some email, which is fine. But if you connect with people on LinkedIn, think we talked about this, you have their email.
John: [00:32:10] Did you know that, like you can see
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:32:12] On the profile, so if you and I think you can do one hundred a day? Mm hmm. You do a hundred connection requests a day. So I think you're trying to stay in the L.A. area, right? I don't have a preference. Like I said, like the research, maybe like in New York. I get that like, I'm going. Yeah. So. I think, you know, I think it would be smart for you to like number one. Connect with every single investment banker in the L.A. region. Or at least send a connection request, okay, to let them know you're graduating soon. You love to get in touch and hear about their did it up just to try and set up a ton of a ton more phone calls. How many phone calls are you doing? You're doing a couple of phone calls a week. Yeah, a few. Like next week, I think I only have like five. Yeah, I mean, probably without internships, you could probably do 20 to 30. I'm running Wall Street Oasis and I'm doing sometimes 50 calls in a week, and it's brutal for bringing on new mentors. But I'm doing it. Think about that, like all the podcasts and like that, I hear them like how like phone calls are you having a week? Like, he's probably talking to so many people? I talk, I'm talking to a lot of people. I actually told my guy that helps me with like, I'm like, Dude, slow down a little bit. I'm like, It's just getting out of hand. Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. It's fun. But yeah, I think with schoolwork, it sounds like, you know, without the internship, I think it should be like your internship.
John: [00:33:45] Yeah, OK. Oh, definitely should be like a full-time job. It should be like a
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:48] Full-time job. And if you treat it like that, you're going to see some amazing results. And so that means
John: [00:33:55] Like literally
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:56] Getting off with me and connecting with like a hundred people that have the right. I mean, I would start with L.A. people around you that you could meet in person that says a much bigger impact developing the thing, but then quickly move to S.F. Quickly move to Chicago, New York. Whatever in New York is like. The pool is just enormous.
John: [00:34:15] But do you have sales navigator? Sales navigator, yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:34:21] Do you have like the ability to do those searches, those smart searches and whatever? Like, I've never actually heard of sales navigator. Yeah, let me. When share my screen. And if you go here, your sales now have. Um, and you go to like, search, keyword, advanced search you could do like. Industry investment banking. You could do region geography. Los Angeles. We just literally start with this six thousand two hundred and ninety-three, then you could do schools Irvine. One hundred and forty-seven. Mm hmm. So I would start with you should absolutely be connected to every single one of these people. Okay. Got it. I know there's like another way we can do that or they taught us, like at school. It's like jumping onto like the school's page, going to the alumni room and typing in whatever field you want to go into. But this is probably more efficient. Yeah, I mean, literally, this is like their alarm, there's one hundred and. One hundred and forty-seven alarm, here's an MD at Intrepid. President Crossroads BP at Barclays, BP Business Development Senior Vice President, Focal Point Partners, a boutique, it looks like some of these purchase or purchase. It's like 60 to 70 bucks a month or something. Okay. This is also cheaper than a master's in finance. Just fucking. This is this is much cheaper, and this could lead to the same point. So I would definitely encourage you to invest in it so you can do smarter searches. So UC Irvine is one thing, but like, why not do? Are there other non-targets? In L.A., like UCLA is kind of like, I mean, there's used I
John: [00:36:32] Mean like in terms of you see, like the area, there's like UCR, UC San Diego, UC Santa Barbara, like I would I would get
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:36:39] All those people because I bet you. So if I go to filters and I go to like UC Santa Barbara, a good example. Like, you have something to talk about right away. Let me see, you see. Santa Barbara. Sixty-seven. Look at that. Mm hmm. And these people, the odds of them getting on a phone, you are going to be really high. Yeah. Director Houlihan went to UC Santa Barbara. Nice. Like, these should be the first people you hit up. Hmm. You know, and it sounds like you did like you're reaching out to 10, but you're being very like calculating. Yeah, something like, dude, you need to go for volume, right? Ok. Like, it needs to be literally a hundred a day, OK?
John: [00:37:29] Because like these,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:31] Like a short little like the connection
John: [00:37:33] Requests connect.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:37:35] This little thing is a tiny message that's like, Hey, Parker. So you see where I'm at. Uc Irvine also interested in investment banking sawyer over at Salem. I'd love to love to hear more. You have a chance. I've just finished my fall internship. I'm just looking to learn more about blah real estate investment banking, whatever it is. Got it! Got it. Okay. Would love to connect, and I think you're going to get a pretty good hit rate with that because you're making that connection between the UK's. We'll see what else you see. What UCL? Uh, I don't think that's part of UC San Diego. Like in San Diego, you see, Ah. David, you see, San Diego is perfect. That would be not as much, but 50 for their Duff and Phelps would be a great firm to start at. Mm hmm. Talk to talk to Rob and Kim. Talk to KPMG Corporate Fin Talk. Talk to MAlien, which is in Costa Mesa. And Lincoln International made great place to start. In L.A., all these people, man, and now I feel like you're also like more polished now in terms of your interview skills, so it's not going to be one of those things where you're like, you don't need to be shy. Yeah, just go for it. You have three months till you graduate. Yeah, I got to go. Like, literally your full-time job should be one hundred a day. You're hitting out your Mac's, like literally max it out. And then to the point where you're like, OK, shit, I got to slow down the top of the funnel because I have so many phone calls. Yeah, OK. Just from that, as you go from February to March to April, it say you're getting April and you're literally doing 40 calls a day. Sorry, 40 calls a week. I was like tape. Hey, let's hear do, let's do it. You're doing 40 calls a week, seriously, like 10 calls a day in between your classes at night, whenever you can on the weekends. Meeting with people. There's going to be
John: [00:39:50] You're going to be so well connected with people in
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:39:53] And around the U.S. and whatever that you're going to hear about an opening. And you're at least going to get a shot. So it's going to help you get another like five to 10 shots before you graduate, ideally. And you may not be at a KPMG or a Lincoln because you may be too late or a definite Phelps, but it could be at a small boutique or, oh, actually, I have a friend. He runs the shop over here. He's kind of looking for somebody because you don't. The worst thing you can be doing right now is spending time on job boards and dropping your resume. It's a total waste of your time. It's like, okay, it's just you need a direct referral. You need to make the connections. And so literally a hundred a day. Okay. Could this takes one minute. Per person takes one minute if you have a standard like template. Yeah, like an hour, 40 hour hours, two hours a day, Two hours a day, two hours a day, that's 10 hours a week. But then you know, what's going to start happening is once you start actually going at that rate, it's quickly going to become, you're going to not be able to do one hundred a
John: [00:41:01] Day because you're going to be you're going to be
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:02] Having all these emails and people reaching back out and you're going to have to
John: [00:41:07] After
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:08] You sent that in. But you've got to re reconnect and you're going to quickly move to the U.S.. I mean, this is only a couple of days of work. Yeah. Fifty four plus like sixty seven. So let's talk about what else do you have a piece of paper or notes, or you can type it on your computer and say, do the UK's first. So Irvine,
John: [00:41:24] Obviously San Diego, I think that's a great connection
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:27] That was really
John: [00:41:28] Smart for you to bring up
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:41:30] Because there is that California there is that. What about like a Fullerton, California state? Fullerton, Call State, Cal States? Yeah, yeah, because they have there are another eighty-one persons there. The 81 people. In some of these aren't like senior roles, you know what I mean? Not a ton. You shouldn't be looking at this like this guy, managing director at Synergy Advisors in Newport. Do you know him? What is synergy advisers? And. I haven't heard more like compliance. Yeah, that's that. It's not great. So like obviously at the non-targets, you're going to get some not as many blue chip. Sorry, I mean, just getting my foot in the door is what matters, right? Exactly. This advisory group. Mm hmm. In Irvine, Jeff Chang. Mr. I can't find it anyways, but you should be able to like look at their. So that's like, you see. Corporate development manager, commercial real estate broker controller. Harvey, is that where you were? Yeah, that's where I was. Yeah. Ok. And then keep up to date with those people to people you interned with. I'm trying to think what other things we could do besides school. Am. I mean, any non-target man. Yeah, and they don't target like anywhere, right, anywhere. Like specifically California first.
John: [00:43:24] But yeah, anywhere. California, like you
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:43:25] Could literally go. So, for example, I could do. Instead of Los Angeles, or maybe you do los it, you keep it Los Angeles to keep it reasonable, but now you do. You all filters, you go to university and you type in something like Penn State. Mm hmm. Let's see if there's anybody in L.A. that's 11. Well. Director of M&A. Nice. These guys are going to be these look like actual banks, small banks. Houlihan Lokey. What else after Penn State? Let's think of another just large Michigan. University of Michigan. Well, they're kind of the kind of target. Yeah. Try Michigan State. Seven results. But look at this. This is like beautiful Central Michigan, one person, Western Michigan, five people right now. These are it's a little tough. Not really. Investment banking, all of them. Some of them have marked investment banking. Sometimes they work for an investment bank, but they're not doing investment banking functions. So you've got to be a little bit so like out of those two hundred people, 300 people, it may only be like six out of these, like zero there.
John: [00:44:58] California state. I mean, UCLA is going to be packed, but yeah, of course.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:45:05] But UCLA, they may be open to it, you know what I mean? Yeah, some people that I reached out to, I've been pretty friendly. One hundred and ninety-nine. It's a lot more. Mm hmm. So I would start there and then forget L.A., like, just do. What about just instead of the L.A. region? You just do Irvine across? Three hundred fifty-seven, so it really opens up. Because people may be in Bay Area. In New York or Chicago, or Ceo, Greenstone Equity Partners, headquartered in Dubai with additional service culture in is raising capital. So like there's all, there's this interesting placement. If you can just develop some relationships here and be excited on the phone and like, ask good questions. Think you might be surprised? Yeah, exactly. It's all about building that, that pool of people you're updating. Ok. Think of it like this. There's you're doing like you probably have like 50 people in some sort of reminder cycle. I like people, you're like talking to or emailed or maybe more a couple of hundred. Hmm. So out of those couple of hundred people, they'll be like a few spots
John: [00:46:28] That open up during these before you graduate.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:46:33] And so, like doesn't leave you that much wiggle room for error in terms of interviews, whereas if you are able to expand that from like, say, two hundred people. To two thousand people where you don't do calls with two thousand people, but you reach out to two thousand people, you tell them your story or like, you know, you're looking. And then from there, you do calls with, say, over the next three or four months, you do calls with like four hundred people. Like, if you actually do that, the odds of you getting into a lot more processes just explodes. Yeah, that makes sense. So it's really a numbers game. It's really about just getting yourself out there as much as humanly possible, like treating it like a full-time job. And if you do that, if you treat it like a full-time job, you actually put in 40 hours a week. And I've seen people go crazy with this. I've seen people do 60 hour weeks. I mean, you have school as a problem. But like when people are unemployed and they're determined and they start getting desperate. They go all out, yeah, they go all out, but like, you know, I would say do that now before it gets harder. Yeah, yeah, I will.
John: [00:47:42] I'll definitely do that. I have to pick it up.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:47:47] Yeah, because I think you're getting I think you're being too cute about it. You're being to like thought you're almost being too thoughtful about it, and it's reducing your volume by like 90 percent of what it could be. I think that's what it is. You hit it like on the dot. Yeah. Like, yes, yes, your hit rate is going to be better. Reaching out to those 10 people per week and like writing a thought-out message, but your template should just Be way more.
John: [00:48:13] Yeah, volume
Patrick (CEO of WSO):: [00:48:15] Like you can reach out to. Like, back when I was, we didn't have LinkedIn. Like, you can reach it. You can talk to anybody and you'll be surprised. Like you hear your heart rate will go up back down, but you just show me a man. Your head rate will go
John: [00:48:28] Down from, like you're saying, thirty
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:29] Five percent, it'll drop to 10 percent, but you've 10x your if you 10x your outreach, you're still like quadrupling your. I don't even I didn't do the math, but you're probably like quadrupling the number of leads. You have a number of calls you have. Yeah, yeah, you're right about that. You're right about that. Okay. So don't worry about it. Your hit rate going down and don't worry about people being pissed off. They'll just
John: [00:48:50] Ignore you. It's all right. I mean, I
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:48:55] Have to ignore people all the time, people reaching out to me. It's not when they reach out to about. Can you talk to me about my career and not be on the phone like on LinkedIn or both? Both. Yeah, I mean, I ask my students, oftentimes students
John: [00:49:11] And people who I know
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:49:12] Who are in the like the mentor network for us who mentor other kids. If they need help, I typically will get on the phone and try to help them through something like through the transition. But for like undergrads, I can't always I can't do that. Just that's not enough time. And you see, I'm doing a ton of calls. A lot of them out there.
John: [00:49:31] There's a lot of kids out there. There's a lot of kids
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:49:34] Graduating and three or four months that aren't going to that are going to. Kind of go through the motions and whatever. Don't be one of those kids. I'm not trying to be one of those kids because I haven't I haven't been trying to be like, You do not know I do. I think you're just laid back like me and like you, you kind of. When I was twenty one, twenty two and I was going through this. It doesn't become real
John: [00:49:59] Until like it becomes
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:01] Real, and it's like it's later and then you're like, Oh man, I don't have a job. It's too late. Yeah, that's not what I'm trying to be.
John: [00:50:08] So like, I definitely feel the stress. Maybe I don't like you.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:12] Don't show it. Yeah, you don't show your cool and collected, which is good. Definitely not in these phone calls, but like when I'm alone. Like, I'm stressed. But put that, put that stress to something good. Yeah, no. Definitely put that stress into like working out and then like hitting LinkedIn for two
John: [00:50:26] Hours and like, Boom, I did it
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:27] Today and then getting on your emails and doing the reminder
John: [00:50:30] Emails and
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:31] Getting in, getting those cycles going so that you're building. You're just
John: [00:50:37] It's like taking if I told
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:39] You to, let's put in basketball terms,
John: [00:50:41] I told you have to hit
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:42] 20 half-court shots before you have a job. Mm hmm. Twenty, you have to hit twenty half court. Yeah, you're going to shoot a thousand before or like maybe me,
John: [00:50:53] I may be hit like thirty-one
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:50:56] Forty. No, but I understand like,
John: [00:50:59] You're going to have to shoot a lot.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:51:01] You're going to throw. You're going to have to shoot a
John: [00:51:04] Lot to get 20.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:51:06] Like you could probably do. I don't know how often you hit a half-court shot like five percent of the time, two percent of the time. I don't really practice it, but if I did, yeah, probably like two percent of the time. It's actually it's more like you have to hit one hundred half-court shots. Yeah. Yeah, that's insane to get a full-time offshoot a thousand plus. Yeah, more, yeah, you'd have to shoot two thousand shots. So think of it that way, you got to shoot two thousand shots to get one hundred and half-court shots going in before you have that full-time offer, if you think of it that way. But like. It's going to happen, it's just a matter of time, and you're just putting in those because those hundred shots is basically like 100 interviews. It's basically like you getting one hundred calls, one hundred interviews, a hundred strong leads. Mm hmm. And just to funnel the math just works. Eventually, you find you're talking to somebody, you follow up with somebody that you had reached out to three months because you have that right inbox reminding you to just give them an update. Boom, you're hitting them again. They're like, Actually, wow, what do you know? We're actually just looking for somebody right now and spot just opened up and you're like, I'm right here. Come on down. So that's the thing. Just take more shots, do a lot more shots we'll do. I always talk to people, I'm like, how many people do you reach out to this thing? And they're like, Oh, 10, 20,
John: [00:52:31] 30, I'm like, Come on. Yeah, yeah, you got each other a lot more.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:52:37] It's not
John: [00:52:38] Comfortable. It's not fun.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:52:41] It's mindless. You got to get like a good track. Like, I don't know, what do you listen to? And listen to the eclectic mix just like anything, really, so if you got any good, if you got any good playlist, shoot it my way. Whatever can you like, hype you up on some coffee and some whatever just to plow through those two hours a day. It's huge.
John: [00:53:03] It's got to get it going
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:53:05] In two hours a day, by the way, is LinkedIn. That's not everything you could be doing because ideally you're taking calls outside of that too. Mm hmm. Yeah. It'll start. It'll start building up. Maybe you just wake up from 6:00 a.m. to eight a.m. before your classes
John: [00:53:16] Every day and just do it. It wasn't that bad. I've been kind of doing that for my modeling, like when I was getting ready for the Super Day, I would wake up early, hit the modeling and then go to class.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:53:29] So I think, you know. Are they doing some sort of balance, like getting a calendar in place where you're like, Hey, Monday through Friday, six to eight a.m. is my top of funnel outreach on LinkedIn? Then you say, I go to class, get some lunch and then whatever when I get out of class from six to eight p.m. after dinner or but right before dinner, I'm going
John: [00:53:54] To do
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:53:56] All my follow-ups on my emails. Mm hmm. To my people and then have dinner and then from like nine to 10, I'm going to talk to my girlfriend like, you know, it's like whatever. And then. And then go to bed. But like in those two hours where you're doing the fall, it's like it could be. Maybe you're not going to do two hours of follow-up like every day because the hit rate is going to be lower. So it'll be like, I think you should keep those two hours every morning until it becomes overwhelming where you're getting too many people agreeing to do calls. But so like those, evening times could be slider for phone calls. Or if you have a slots in the middle
John: [00:54:35] Of the day, like today, for example,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:54:37] It's middle of the day. If you have these, you could offer all those up to four, like just 10 minutes of your time, 15 minutes, you know, 10 minutes of your time would be great at it, and you just keep them on the phone for 10 15 minutes. You make that
John: [00:54:47] Connection and then boom,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:54:50] Four weeks later, you're following up. Then eight weeks later, you're
John: [00:54:52] Following up again. Letting them know what's
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:54:54] Going on as you get closer and closer to D-Day makes sense. Ok, sounds good. So next time, next time we talk. I want you to be like, Oh my gosh, dude, I've been on the phone nonstop. I want you to feel like a telemarketer where you're. Look at me, dude. The beauty of this is you're only talking to people that have agreed to talk to you. Yeah, it's not sales or you're getting hung up on. Yeah, it's not like, sorry to bother you. Like one movie. It's such a good movie. Seen it? I think that's all you needed to really tweak this.
John: [00:55:35] Definitely take this.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:55:38] The Irvine one and this other one in palettes take it super seriously in the sense of make sure you have your technical and your behaviors down, especially for the tech firm. Um. I think will be good. How are you? How are the Lakers doing?
John: [00:55:57] Then we just broke the other day. So they're doing all right. There's been some talk about like how they're going to hold up against the Clippers in the playoffs. And I think the Clippers just got like Marcus Morris. So we'll see.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:11] They got what the Clippers got, what they got. Marcus Morris think like, that's the last I heard about before the trade deadline. And then I kind of went blank from NBA talks just because this week and yeah, the I think the Celtics just said I don't think they got the Celtics just beat the Clippers in double overtime last night. If you saw that.
John: [00:56:35] Yeah, you know, I saw the highlights, I thought it was pretty crazy. Jayson Tatum went off at the end, so
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:56:41] He's starting to show what he can do. Yeah, definitely. Supers have gone, could have, could have gone before. Alonzo definitely could have been that two spot. Yeah, that was not a great pick. And the great part about that was the Celtics had the first pick of the draft. They traded down to the third pick. Yeah, yeah. So that bolts and ball went ahead of them. And then the Celtics also got up the Memphis pick next year because of that, which is. Yeah, which could be lottery again.
John: [00:57:16] If you guys, I think Lonzo Ball started to shine now. It's just maybe the program with the Lakers organization wasn't working out for him. I think he's doing better with a young core.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:57:30] Yeah, where is he now? Did you go to New Orleans? Yeah, yeah, he's in New Orleans Pelicans. Yeah, I started to show him now. Yeah, he'll be again. He learns that right. It's better not to worry about that right now. What about my Lakers? So. Yeah, well, I think it's going to be an exciting playoffs either way. Yeah, I think the league is a little more
John: [00:57:56] Balanced this year than the past few years, so it'll be fun to watch.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:57:59] The West is still better like clearly, but yeah, it's still better. But there's just like one dominant team like Golden State Warriors, so it's going to be fun. It's going to be. It'll be good. Coleman Well,
John: [00:58:12] Let me know if I can help in any
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:58:14] Way. If you want to send me any kind of drafts of emails or outreach or whatever you're using. We can do that. But I think like the to start like, yeah, just hit up any you say or run anywhere, hit up any Yankees anywhere and then hit, then start going on targets. It tend to be a little more open to talking to other non-targets because they feel like when they were in that position, no one responded to them. So your hit rate will probably be much better than talking to some kids that somebody's got it. Yeah, I don't think I've been doing too much networking with some Ivy Leagues having crossed that box off yet, and I don't think I will soon. You don't need to because there's just such a big pool of state school kids in these types of jobs. So well, maybe you will if you actually start treating it like a machine if you get the machine going. Yeah, I will. I definitely want I'll keep you updated and I'll definitely look into sales navigator too. Also, I just sent you the Bank in Irvine via Skype, so I don't know if you want to give that plug to get off. So, yeah, it's perfect. I'll take a look and I'll give you my thoughts. And then, yeah. Good luck with everything. Definitely. Keep me updated. Do your Monday morning updates because I like checking in on that. That's good. Yeah, I apologize about that. Sorry. Sorry, because I just like hearing like that. Keeps you honest. Keeps you honest. Yeah, yeah, no, definitely, I like that, too. Ok, well, I'm happy you kind of have more time now with that ship. I think it's going to if you use it properly, I think you'll
John: [00:59:54] Think you'll start
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:59:55] Getting a lot more, a lot more at bats, so. Sounds good. I appreciate it. Amen to that soon. Goodbye, bye. And thanks to you, my listeners at Wall Street Oasis. If you have any suggestions whatsoever, please don't hesitate to send them my way. Patrick at Wall Street Oasis dot com. And till next time.
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