Bulge Bracket IB Analyst and Co-Founder of a Startup....At the Same Time?! (Part 2 of 2)
Summary
In this two-part series, member @LateralMonkey shares her story from a non-target school all the way to the front office at a bulge bracket investment bank.
Find out what helped her land a rare sophomore summer internship in capital markets and why she despised it. Why she stayed at the same bank for her junior summer and what saved her time and time again. This is part 2 or 2
Check out Part 1 here:
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/media/bulge-bracket-ib-analyst-and-co-f…
Podcast
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WSO Podcast Transcript:
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:00:04] Hello and welcome. I'm Patrick Curtis, your host and chief monkey, and this is the Wall Street Oasis podcast. Join me! As I talked to some of the community's most successful and inspirational members to gain valuable insight into different career paths and life in general. Let's get to it. In this episode, member LateralMonkey shares her story from a non-target school all the way to the front office, set a bulge bracket investment bank. Find out what helped her land a rare sophomore summer internship in capital markets and why she despised it, why she stayed at the same bank for her junior summer and what saved her time and time again. This is part two of a two part series. Know my talk to me first about so you're sorry, I interrupted you before about talking about like there were no female MDS. Talk to me a little bit more about that. So like there was just did you feel like it was you're out of place? Yeah, like you were talking about gender ratio there.
LateralMonkey: [00:01:11] So I I have a firm belief, just based on my experience in finance, I have very often been the only woman in the room. I don't think it's about having more women in the room, although that's always a plus. I think it's about the way men treat you. If they treat you like your opinions are valid and they're worth listening to and like, you're important. I think that that goes a very long way. You know, there was no women in my group, my second summer, but the way that the men treated me and the way that I interacted with them made all the difference. So a big difference. A big difference. Is this right? Like, I have certain hobbies and I think they're interesting. And, you know, junior bankers on my first summer on the team, my first summer were not willing to talk about it and like, honestly, look down on it and were super condescending. My second summer, they were open to discussing it and learning about it, and we would talk about it. And there was like an exchange of ideas there that is super positive, and I think that is a sign of the healthy group.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:14] Very interesting. I love it. So, OK, you get the offer. Are you crying again because you're so excited?
LateralMonkey: [00:02:22] Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think I put down in in Wall Street Oasis. There was a question like, how do you know you've made it? And for me, that was the moment because, you know, I remember wanting to move to New York City as a child and not knowing how. And then all of a sudden this was going to be my home. You're telling me this is going to be my home for senior year. That was huge for me. Yeah.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:47] Did your parents know what investment banking was at this point now that you had done it for two summers?
LateralMonkey: [00:02:51] Oh, kind of started it more, just like they saw my signing bonus and they were like, This is good.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:02:57] Ok, this is this is a real job.
LateralMonkey: [00:03:00] Yeah, OK, a real job. This is good. This is OK. And I think like one of my one of my aunts or something like had a friend whose son had done investment banking, but he was at Goldman and she was like, Oh, she'll never see you, but she'll make a lot of money and it's OK.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:03:16] Okay, very true. Ok. In terms of kind of how your senior year went, I assume it was like a blast because you kind of had that offer. Well, first, tell me, how did you did you proceed to shop the offer? Did you accept after a couple of days, a couple of weeks?
LateralMonkey: [00:03:34] So this is again returning to the importance of relationships, right? Over two summers at one firm, I had built a lot of relationships and the relationships I had made my first summer, they had deepened by the time I came to my second summer. And when you talk about deepening of relationships again, no one includes what that is. I'll be totally honest with you. It's as simple as just checking in with people. Right?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:03:56] Like, how often did you do that and how
LateralMonkey: [00:03:57] Often do those other bankers have really boring lives? Yes. So like hearing from a young person and being like, hey, this is what I'm thinking about. This is what I'm doing, right? This is what's going on in my life. You will be infinitely more interesting than them every time.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:13] Indeed. And did you feel like how did you feel like get that balance in terms of not bothering them too much? Did you have like a certain set time like you'd only check in once a month, once every six weeks? What was the kind of a natural? Did you feel like it was normal?
LateralMonkey: [00:04:27] Yeah, depends on the person. If they felt a little stodgy like it was a once every six months thing. Yeah, if I knew they had, this is this is one that I think is a little more nuance. Like if I knew they had just had children. Yeah, right. The first year is hell on Earth. So yes, I would normally check in like that was another one.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:04:45] You could probably hear my babies crying in the background. Sorry, if you can hear that.
LateralMonkey: [00:04:48] But yeah, exactly. Like, you know, yeah, you know, you look asleep out of the person. Do you really want to be emailing them constantly? That's not great. And also don't send articles to someone that just had a child. They're not going to read them unless there's something super, super, super interesting. They're not going to read them, right? So like little things like that, again, this is where IQ comes in, right? Like little things like that. There were some people, I think it was mainly women bankers who I knew I had a lot in common with. I would send them stuff a lot, like maybe every three months, maybe every five months, you know, maybe something cool came out for women in leadership positions, and I would send it to them and be like, Hey, have you thought about this? Like, what do you think of it? Cool, right? So stuff like that.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:35] Yeah, but you'd use it. Be careful. Yeah, I'd be careful not to over overdo it.
LateralMonkey: [00:05:40] I would say this. I never did. I never, ever emailed anybody more than once, every three months.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:46] Got it. That's good guidance.
LateralMonkey: [00:05:47] And I never emailed anybody less than once every eight months.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:05:51] Perfect. I love it. So between three and eight months? Yeah, yeah. So in terms of,
LateralMonkey: [00:05:57] You have something to say, make sure you have something to say, right? And make sure you have a viewpoint on something like there's way too many people that I saw is a young person who would approach senior people and they would start talking about something, but they had no developed viewpoint on it. Have an opinion, have something to say, have something to contribute. That's what makes you interesting.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:06:18] I love it. So any guidance on that in terms of how to develop an opinion without coming across as overconfident or arrogant?
LateralMonkey: [00:06:27] I think I think it's just about like respectful discourse, and that's something that's so lost in American universities, but again, that's a discussion for another time. Yeah. You know, it's something as simple as if you and I are talking about, I'm going to give a contemporary example if you and I are talking about politics, right? Democrats and Republicans, I'm not going to like, run in there and say, You know, you're wrong, you're wrong on this point. There's a respectful way to make a point and there's a disrespectful way. So respectful way to make your point is, let's say you say something like Republican tax cuts are going to generate growth in the long term and they are overall good for the economy. Right? There's your statement. Right. And I say something like, that's a really interesting point. Have you ever thought about it this way? And then I present maybe a more Keynesian argument and I say, you know, tax cuts could actually hurt the economy. Have you thought about what John Maynard Keynes said about driving up government expenditure during times of catastrophe and helping drive growth that way? Right, that's a good way. Yeah. You're saying you're wrong or something like that. That's a bad way.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:34] Understood. Understood. That makes a lot of sense. So tell me a
LateralMonkey: [00:07:37] Little bit about politics. A lot with bankers, which
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:07:41] Is that's like, I can't believe. I can't believe you did that and navigated it like so it sounds like you've navigated it successfully because it's a very dangerous place to play. Oh, but it sounds like based on what you just based on what you just told me, it sounds like you did it in such a way that was very kind of understated and smart, and you didn't necessarily reveal how strong your opinions were in certain areas.
LateralMonkey: [00:08:07] It was humble. It's actually it's so funny because now that I'm out of the firm that I was at, like really after I was there for two years, there was this one entity that I talked to consistently since my first summer in banking, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, I talked to him all the time and I was I remember the last time, three times ago. So like a year ago when we talked, I had like such a strong opinion. It was on health care. It's such a strong opinion. I was like, No, you, you do not know this, you know? Yeah, and he's more libertarian than I am not. And you know, we actually had a little bit of an argument about it, but it was actually really fun and you can only do that with someone you have an established rapport with.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:08:48] Right, right. Respect for and
LateralMonkey: [00:08:49] You talk to me about his like five year old and his nine year old. Like, we had an established rapport, right? He knew me. He knew what kind of person I was, and that's why we could go back and forth. Don't ever, ever do that. I would say even in the first year of knowing someone don't do that.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:04] Yeah, no, that's great. I love it. I wish. I wish we could do that on. So with all the political circus? Yeah, but maybe they'll maybe they maybe that's what we need to do. Like, have something where you have to be on the site for a year with a certain number of bananas before you can even talk politics? I don't know. Yeah.
LateralMonkey: [00:09:22] Anyways, respectful discourse is a really lost skill, and I think that's true for any topic. Whether you're talking about politics, whether you're talking about, I don't know, religion where you think the market will go. Yeah, what's really important?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:09:36] Yeah, well, that's great. And so you're very happy. Your parents were now happy because they saw your signing bonus, which was, what, fifteen thousand something like that? Yep, yep. And then you kind of you accept it, right? So tell me about that process. Was it you kind of knew you were going to accept? And was there any hesitation?
LateralMonkey: [00:10:00] No, you know, I had the relationships, I knew that I wanted to continue to deepen those relationships. I wanted to be in a place that I was protected, frankly. I really, really didn't, you know, look, I was in like, OK, so like Tier one is like, you know, the top three banks that everyone knows about in Tier two is maybe a couple of other banks. And I never wanted a shot my offer for something that was more prestigious because frankly, when you get to a certain point, it's just splitting hairs at that point. You know, like, you know, now I'm an econ major, right? So like, how much will this minor bump in prestige actually increase my happiness? The answer was not a lot, you know?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:10:40] Yeah, the marginal benefit of a little extra dose of prestige to your to your ego or whatever or whatever it would be.
LateralMonkey: [00:10:46] Well, I like, let me put it this way. And I was dating someone at the time, so I obviously did not think about it this way. But like if I were at a bar, right? Let's say the brass monkey in Meatpacking District and I'm saying I am a Citigroup investment banker. And you know, I'm top, you know, I'm top stuff like, will I really get more girls if I say that I'm a Goldman Sachs banker? We're right. The answer is no. By the way, are you
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:11] Sure not just kidding?
LateralMonkey: [00:11:14] Are a couple. I've seen a couple of friends try that out. You know, and I that's kind of how I viewed it. And so for me, when I thought was, OK, I'm going to choose based on the strength of my relationships and my relationships are strongest here. So I think that
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:29] It makes a lot of sense the bulls up. So you had a great senior year, I assume.
LateralMonkey: [00:11:33] I did I ended up founding a company in my senior year, so OK. A lot happened there. And are you falling in love the whole nine
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:41] Yards so you fell in love, you founded a company. A lot of change, a lot of fun. And then the company, I assume you stopped when you started working full time or what did you do?
LateralMonkey: [00:11:53] Oh, I wish. So. That's crazy.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:11:57] That's insane that you kept the company starting. Ok, so tell me what happened yet. So why didn't you go back to the same coverage group that you loved?
LateralMonkey: [00:12:06] I did. Yeah. Well, I'm not going back. I the reason why is because I had founded a company and that changed everything. And this is another thing that I will say to young people, Don't ever underestimate you know how much your life can change in a very, very short amount of time. You know, we're at an age where little things can impact your entire perspective on things. And honestly, actually, that's not even true for young people.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:12:31] So tell me why you say that to. I mean, why you say that? Like, what happened to you that that sorry, what happened to you specifically where like something could change, like you're like is just the start up change and everything like things took off and it did.
LateralMonkey: [00:12:42] You did. The events that led to the start up were fairly traumatic. And then we founded my good friend and I was a software engineer, founded a company to come up with a solution to that issue. And it impacted somebody we had both loved. And, you know, I was so absorbed in it because again, I'm obsessive, right? So I was obsessed. I was obsessed with solving the problem, and I was so absorbed and so invested in it that I realized that I actually really enjoyed being an entrepreneur. And I really enjoyed, you know, being accountable to myself and building this company and the process and the process was terrible, by the way. Oh my goodness. If anyone ever tells you that early stage start-ups are super fun, that person is a sociopath. Like, it was terrible. It was so much work. But I but honestly, it was so great. Like, I just said that you're a sociopath. You say you enjoyed it, and I'm saying that I enjoyed it now.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:13:38] You know, you're a sociopath. I just thought
LateralMonkey: [00:13:41] It was better. It was better than my banking time because I felt like I had purpose. And that is really what would change me. I figured out what it meant to work towards something and have a purpose with it. And then I and then I had worked without a purpose in thinking, and no money is not purpose. But I assume, you know,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:03] I assume you kind of still felt the pressure to take the job, start collecting the pay check. You didn't come from a lot of money. It sounds like so.
LateralMonkey: [00:14:10] Well, I didn't actually. And the reason why is because like I so so my family background was I was upper middle class, and so I was doing OK, but I was from a very small town.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:21] Yep, that's right. Your father was a doctor. You said, right? So you were. Yes.
LateralMonkey: [00:14:26] You guys were. My dad is a doctor. Yeah, we weren't hurting. But I think for me, what did it? It was never about the money. For me, the reason I went back was because of those relationships. Mm hmm. Literally. That's why because all of those people had invested in me and I felt profoundly guilty. And I also felt like those relationships would be harmed if I didn't go back full
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:14:46] Time, right? Because they had invested so much time like mentoring and
LateralMonkey: [00:14:50] All of those recommendations, all of those introductions, all of those like, can you imagine what the person who had CC, the entire junior team of that group would have done if I hadn't gone back? Yeah, I went back because of the really everything was. My career starts with the relationships and it ends with relationships.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:06] I serve your senior year
LateralMonkey: [00:15:08] For
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:15:09] It. So your senior year, how are you balance? So you're balancing schoolwork this new start up? Are you a co-founder or is it like your own baby? Like, are you a 50 50?
LateralMonkey: [00:15:16] No, I'm a co-founder. 50 every single line of code. Okay. Co-founder was the one who could so senior year I graduate early. I move. I moved to a different city to be closer to, you know, the guy that I've mentioned vaguely in this conversation. And I'm still working on the start up and we end up getting into an incubator and that goes super well. Mm hmm. And I continue working through the three months that I'm two and a half months that I'm training and I actually failed on in the series exams because I barely studied for it because I had a pitch competition to go to. That was not my finest moment, but kept working, you know? And yeah, I ended up going to a capital markets group because I just I wanted my weekends. That's what I wanted
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:16:04] And to be able to continue
LateralMonkey: [00:16:05] Hard during the week, but I could be, which begins in the Capital Markets Group. So I went to the Capital Markets Group and that turned out to not be the case. I would put that myself in that group. It was awful. The hours were coverage level. It was terrible and I had to take a step back. I took a step back in the fall. So just a few months after, I started full time on the desk and it was honestly like. A lot of people would say, Oh my God, like, you know, banking hours are terrible. Try banking and start up hours.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:16:39] Yeah. So what did you even I mean, was your co-founder B like, what are you doing like you can't do this? Or was he had you guys raise funding? What was the I mean, if I was your co-founder and you're like, I'm going to start banking, I'd be like, What are you doing? Like, No, you can't do that or like, you got to sell to me or you know what I mean? I'd be like, You're not going to be working. So what was that conversation that must have been tough?
LateralMonkey: [00:16:59] It was a really tough conversation she knew me really, really well, and we had a very honest conversation about the number. Number of hours I could put in. Yes. And by the way, the number of hours was roughly 10 to 15. Yeah. And I did that on top of thinking and I didn't sleep at all. There was when I'm being very honest about that, I did not sleep. So she was putting in about 40 hours a week. At that point, I was putting in 10, putting in 10 to 15. But that was balanced by the fact that I had gone full throttle for months, putting in 80 to 90 hours. I almost I mean, I had like a 3.9 GPA in college and I almost failed a class my last semester of college because of how much I was working on this, actually, by the way, that Professor loves me, and she told me she would write me a recommendation letter anywhere if I if that grade was an issue. That's right. That was real. Like, that was what I'm talking about, that I get obsessive about something. I'm being very, very honest there. So like, so she knew
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:17:58] That you're so obsessed with this. How did you how did you even step back? Like how so early on in your analyst stint, you're like, this is not working. The group is. I thought this would be I'd have my weekends. I thought I wouldn't be working 80 hours. I thought it'd be more like sixty five, whatever you're working. Eighty five, it sounds like you're 80. And then,
LateralMonkey: [00:18:16] Yeah, it was a secondary analyst who had that conversation with me. He had so we had a weekly this weekly assignment to do, and he was the one that tracked it over and he was such a nice guy like, I'm still a really good friend to them. Yeah, and he took me aside and was like, I just wanted to let you know that this assignment that you just turned in, this is full of errors like this is terrible, and I know you're capable of better because you've been doing better. And then he was like, You look out of it like, you look out of it. He was like, Have you been like doing drugs on the side? Like, what is going on?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:18:48] What's wrong with You?
LateralMonkey: [00:18:48] Like, no, I have, like, never even taken the time at all. The lab is not the case at all. And then I finally was honest with him, and I told him I had to anyways follow in OBOR. So my M.D. knew, but he didn't know that I was like continuing to work on it. Yeah. But this analyst, the analyst, obviously had no idea. And so the analyst comes up to me and it's like, you need to stop. This is this cannot continue. Yeah, and it was I got a Saturday off and this is a little personal, but I got a Saturday off. I remember like two weeks after that conversation and I blacked out and I woke up and I was on the floor of my room and I had I had literally no idea what time it was, and I remember checking the time, and my first thought was my anxiety over checking my email for anything for start up stuff or investment banking stuff. And that was like rock bottom. That was 100 percent rock bottom.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:43] And that was and you blacked out because you were drinking or because you just passed out from exhaustion. And just,
LateralMonkey: [00:19:47] No, I pass out from exhaustion. Ok.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:19:49] Yeah. And you just slept for like, probably 20 hours.
LateralMonkey: [00:19:52] Yeah, I was. I was my body was done. Like, I remember calling my dad because he was a doctor and being like, what just happened? And my dad was like, you, your body quite literally was like, No, we can't function anymore and just shut down. That's what happened. So I ended up actually, I ended up in the hospital for a day because I know a lot of the doctors in New York and one of the doctors was literally put me on an IV with saline, just like because I was so dehydrated. And then I went back to work on Monday, but I was I was gone. I was out of it. So that's why I took a step back
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:26] And tell me how the group handled it or how your mentors handled it. Is that a tough conversation? How did you? How did you even approach them?
LateralMonkey: [00:20:34] I took a step back from start-ups
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:20:36] From the start. Oh, so you stayed? Ok, so you talked to the co-founder. How did you work that out?
LateralMonkey: [00:20:42] That was brutal. Yeah, that was a really hard conversation. We were such I mean, we're still close friends, but that was rough. You know, I had to basically tell her, I can't pursue this idea, like, I just can't do it health wise, I can't. And she understood. And she said, I get it. I wish you had given me a little more like ramp down here. Yeah, but yeah, I get it. And she actually ended up pursuing it with somebody else who I also know. And they are actually doing fantastic. Great. So doing the idea.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:14] But tell me about it
LateralMonkey: [00:21:15] Because we didn't talk for like three months, but you guys. It was a really tough conversation,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:20] But like you had part of the company, right? So did she buy you out or how did that work?
LateralMonkey: [00:21:27] So I gave up 30 percent.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:30] Ok, so you still own a portion of you still you selling a portion? Ok, so you're still in a portion of it. Do you feel like down the road you may rejoin them? Is this is the relationship harm to the point where you could end or you don't have to tell me, Oh, no,
LateralMonkey: [00:21:43] No, no, it's no harm to the point I couldn't. In fact, we're actually still really close to grab dinner about a week ago.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:48] Yeah, I know those are super hard conversations.
LateralMonkey: [00:21:51] Her new boyfriend? Oh, good.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:53] Are you still with the same guy?
LateralMonkey: [00:21:56] Yeah, same guy.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:21:57] Wow. Wow. Well, so that it was good to graduate early. It was good to graduate early for him then.
LateralMonkey: [00:22:03] Yeah. You think you would think that like graduating early for someone and like moving with them? I was like, All right, I've sunk too much into this relationship. Like, this is not going to be a sunk cost.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:13] No, that's great.
LateralMonkey: [00:22:14] So anyway, but no, I'm still very close to that co-founder. I think the reason I would not join is because my goals have changed since being in that startup.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:21] Got it. Okay, so tell me a little bit more about that and why? So so you step back from the from the start up world, you kind of were able to really kind of re-engage in the banking world, but you weren't too happy still with that group, it sounds like so was your goal to get back to coverage.
LateralMonkey: [00:22:38] No, not at all. What was your
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:22:40] Goal to survive
LateralMonkey: [00:22:42] For a couple of years? True. I was miserable. I hated it, so I met with H.R. and was like, Hey, I like to go back up to coverage. And there was actually a group that was super interested in having me because I had a great reputation within the firm like I did a lot with recruiting. I met a lot of people. I knew a lot of people, but H.R. was adamant about this. Like, they were like, we get so many kids don't want to switch. If we let one switch, it's going to be an avalanche. This cannot happen and they block me, and they were like, Nope, it's not going to happen. Don't even try.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:23:12] Oh, man, that's tough. So then what's what was your next move? Just survive in that group for a couple of years?
LateralMonkey: [00:23:18] Nope. My next move was to go to an M.D., but I knew really, really well and I was really close to and basically be like, this is the toll this is taking on my mental health and myself. I need to get out. And she introduced me to someone, and this is what I mean by don’t underestimate how much your life can change. Hmm. She introduced me to somebody incredible. This particular person again, not identifying her for a lot of reasons. Yeah. When President Trump won his election in November of 2016, she was one of the groups that was extremely afraid when Trump was elected, and she looked at her life. And she said she was a director in a coverage group, an investment banking, and she looked at her life and said, If I am. You know, rounded up by the state tomorrow, if something happens to me, if some white nationalist hurts me. Would I have lived a life that I am happy with that I am proud of? And the answer was no. So she upended her entire life, and she basically said no to I mean, God knows what salary, right? Like how much the coverage directors make these days,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:28] A lot of money.
LateralMonkey: [00:24:29] You know, I thought she was insane. They were like, Are you absolutely out of your mind to go to a back office position like you are? You know, you're making so much, you're going to become a managing director. Everyone knows you're going to become a managing director. And she said, No,
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:24:44] Not to me. So this is somebody who had kind of left the front office went to back office more on like a strategy type. Yep, got it, and so you you had already you didn't know who this person was, but through one of your connections, i.e. network, you got put in touch with this person, then tell me how that conversation went.
LateralMonkey: [00:25:06] I mean, it was kind of I mean, she told me her personal story. Yeah, she told me her story. She told me why she switched. She was like, I'm being really honest with you, because woman, the woman, right? Yeah. And I kind of told her, like, similar, you know, about the exact same story, but like similar story. Like, I'm done like, I'm not. I'm not enthralled by the industry. Not something I'm enjoying. I want to switch. And she said, All right, I've got three jobs that you'd be really good at. Here are the options.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:34] Cool.
LateralMonkey: [00:25:35] And there was one that really spoke to me, and it was focusing on strategy and implementation of A.I. processes, and that's the direction I went. That conversation in my PhD was really funny.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:25:48] He's like, what the confusion on their face like, you're going to back off. So that's like you said, it's one of the probably the few times we've seen somebody in front office, one actually step back and go back office or middle office, whatever you want to call it, a strategy. So tell me a little bit about what you don't tell me a lot about the group, but just tell me about. That sacrifice, was it it paid a big pay cut, was it? How was the work? Was the work more interesting? Did it turn out to be still monotonous? Tell me a little bit about that.
LateralMonkey: [00:26:20] Sure. So pay, I guess I can get. Is it a privilege to have that number?
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:25] Yeah, I always I always ask, Yeah. I mean, for for bankers, it's pretty well known. So like eighty five ninety base, right? And then, yeah, OK.
LateralMonkey: [00:26:32] So I'll be I'll be honest. I'll be honest then. So I got promoted to an associate essentially with switching to back office because they had to give me a position that was equivalent to my pay now on my resume. I say that, you know, I was a first person period in my banking class, which is true. I just don't list the reasons why
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:26:54] I love it.
LateralMonkey: [00:26:56] So. Ok. Yeah. So I got so I got a $10000 bump on my base salary. Actually, it's my bonus that got cut to smithereens. So I got a $25000 first year standard bonus first year. Don't get a performance based bonus. We just get the set, whatever right, right. I got a twelve thousand five hundred dollars bonus in my strategy role, and I remember looking at my buddies being like, Did I do something wrong? You know? Yeah, I haven't. That's just the reality of back office. Yeah, but I was I was an associate compensated at the level of a vice president. I have to be honest about that. So I got a slightly higher payback, but I think I had analysts on my team that we had hired. The analysts were getting paid, I would say about sixty five K sixty five to seventy five K in that range.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:27:47] So about four on the analyst level about well after the bonuses factored in with the eighty five ninety on the front office, plus the whatever 40 to 60 right first year, it's a pretty significant hair. It's about a sixty thousand seventy thousand dollar cut and the highest level you had been promoted. But what about work life? Was it better?
LateralMonkey: [00:28:07] Work life was so great I would roll into the office around nine a.m. I was leading at five p.m. Sometimes I'd have to say to the shocking, shocking, horrifying time of eight p.m. Yeah, and I had a blast. I mean, I had such a better life at that point. I was also managing people. What I enjoyed about my strategy role was that I was basically so I like to. I like to say that I was like a professional translator. And what that means is I essentially took what the eye teams and my engineers were telling me, and I translated that for the sea level execs that basically beat their careers on this program. Got it. That was my job. Very cool. And I had such a blast doing that. I had a great time doing that.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:28:52] So you were there for how long? And then tell me what's going on, what's next and why'd you leave?
LateralMonkey: [00:28:57] Yeah. So I was there for roughly eight months. I enjoyed it, but honestly, I wasn't developing in the direction I wanted to. I think also, you know, going back to that young girl that was, you know, wearing a protest t shirt when she met a director at investment banking. That's always been more of who I am. I've always been the kid in the protest T-shirt who wanted, you know, major change in government. And that's the direction I'm heading in now. And so I, you know, I realized that I was still working a job that didn't really have a purpose and I quit. I quit out of the blue and I left to go to a start up and I actually got an offer at a start up and they were like, Hey, why don't you start in like two and a half months? So I went to my backpack for a while. Well, that offer dried up. That offer ended up not materializing because they shut up. They shut down their New York City office. Ok. And so now I'm looking again and I'm looking at government jobs and I'm looking at start up jobs, and I'm kind of, you know, checking out both. But I'm really, really excited for what comes next. And again, like, I think what's most valuable is honestly, my relationships I lost last weekend, actually. So I think it was Saturday night. I had a Goldman Sachs guy over at my place and he was like, he went through like three bottles of wine, like that guy can drink like a horse. Really nice guy. We've been good friends for a while and I had him over and we just talked for a while. And then today I hit him up and was like, Hey, by the way, that's a job with someone that, you know, considering you drink basically half my wine stores, you know? Would you mind making that introduction? So, you know, I'm still doing the whole wheeling and dealing and all that. But um, but again, optimistic.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:30:47] It's awesome. Well, I love your store. I think it's really interesting, and I'm excited to hear what you do next. I think you may end up in D.C. or somewhere with a lot of influence at some point in your life.
LateralMonkey: [00:31:00] So maybe I never say never. Maybe this interview will sink any, you know, congressional and Senate.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:06] No, no.
LateralMonkey: [00:31:08] Unlikely. They'll be like, Oh God, that's basically gamed your way into another offer in banking. Goodness sake. No, I want this person.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:31:17] All I know. All I know is that there's a lot to learn from, from listening to this. And I think I think the listeners will appreciate it. I think just the perspective that you have coming know everything you had to deal with, especially at that first internship, I think, is eye opening.
LateralMonkey: [00:31:31] So I mean, I think I think in the end, the takeaways from my story is, you know, I am not someone that came from a background with a lot of connections or anything like that. I had no understanding of the industry. I think that, you know, forging relationships can take you a very long way. I think being a doing your research, I think relationships are honestly, I think this is true for any relationship you have. It's 99 percent work. You know, do the work, do the legwork, do the research, make sure you're investing time and improving yourself. I'll give you a simple example I have one of my best friends, absolute best friends. Mm hmm. She's not very extroverted like me, but she is the most amazing modeller ever. She could build you. She could be able to do an LBO when we were still in school, and she was by no means a finance major. Mm hmm. And, you know, she used to go to bars, just random bars, and she would just go and practice talking to people. She would strike a conversation with strangers, and that's how she got out of her shell. And that's how she practiced interacting with folks. She'd go to banker bars. She'd go to, you know, jazz bars.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:32:41] Are you sure she wasn't? She wasn't trying to pick up, guys. Come on, let's be honest.
LateralMonkey: [00:32:46] No, she actually did end up meeting her current boyfriend. There you go. There you go.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:32:52] So, no, honestly, the yeah. So you're saying that she was a little more introverted. She worked on herself.
LateralMonkey: [00:32:57] Yeah, she worked on herself a lot. And like, I think she ended up getting an investment banking offer as well, by the way, her junior summer. Wow. She ended up turning it down, and now she's an equity research. But she's one of the smartest people I know. And you know, she's an introvert. She's not someone for whom, you know, relationships come easily, and she comes from a low income household. And yet she made it work. And so I think that's the takeaway from my story as well. Like, really like relationships like these kinds of things happening for you, they're 99 percent work. You can absolutely pull it off 100 percent.
Patrick (CEO of WSO): [00:33:32] Yeah, it's great. I love it. Thank you for thank you for all of that. And thanks to you, my listeners at Wall Street Oasis. If you have any suggestions whatsoever, please don't hesitate to send them my way. Patrick at Wall Street Oasis dot com. And till next time.
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