Basic questions about PE recruiting
Mod note: see great comment below by @northsider answering these questions
I will be a first year IB analyst next July, and wanted to start understanding the basics of PE recruiting. Appreciate your help in answering these questions.
1. When does PE recruiting cycle start?
2. When does it end?
3. If you are in a good group, should you be proactive in reaching out to headhunters, or will they find you? How can you maximize your chances of getting interviews?
4. How do headhunters find you? Through their contacts? LinkedIn? Should I keep a nice, updated LinkedIn profile?
5. Who are the top headhunters for PE? Especially those representing the MFs?
6. Do the PE firms themselves decide who gets first round interviews? Or do they go through headhunters? If so, should I be networking with PE professionals?
7. If your firm has a ban on buyside recruiting, how do answers to any of the above questions change?
Thank you!
also interested.
.
answer to all: it varies but you should be proactive nonetheless
Why not, I'll bite.
Varies from year to year, but for the last 3 cycles, the main process has either run during March / April of your 1st year (2012 and 2014 Associate classes) or January / February of your 2nd year (2013 Associate class)
Most funds have completed recruiting 2-3 weeks after the process starts
Generally, top groups will be contacted by headhunters and you can mostly sit back and wait for emails to come to you. If you notice any glaring omissions, obviously reach out
Usually they receive spreadsheets with contact info from departing analysts. For the top headhunters, you can rest assured that they will find you if you're in a good group. You will, however, likely hear from some smaller headhunters through LinkedIn. You should be keeping an updated LinkedIn profile regardless of recruiting
HHs that represent at least one of the MFs (TPG, BX, Apollo, KKR, Carlyle, CVC, Apax, Warburg, Bain, Silver Lake) are CPI, Amity, HSP, McKibben, Oxbridge and Dynamics
Headhunters play an important role in this process and will many times filter down a list of ~800 candidates, though the ultimate decisions are made by the firms themselves. Many of the MFs have invite-only recruiting events ahead of first rounds where they meet candidates. Networking can never hurt, especially if you have senior-level contacts, but networking matters a whole lot less in the MF process than it does for IB jobs. If you're in a top group, you'll get looks either way; if you're not, networking becomes more essential to get into the MF process
Very little, at least to this point. MS has pretty much abandoned their recruiting policy from what I can tell. And although GS maintains their ban, very few 1st years heeded the warning and most have participated in recruiting the last two years. At least a few MFs have left a spot or two open, but you shouldn't be banking on that option
Hope that helps.
Excellent thank you. SBed.
A few more questions for anyone who cares to answer.
That's hard to boil down to a list of reasonable length. If I had to pick a few with top caliber reputations outside of the MFs I listed above, I'd go with THL, H&F, Advent, Leonard Green, CD&R, Berkshire, General Atlantic, MDP, Kelso, Centerbridge, Providence, First Reserve (energy focus), New Mountain and GTCR (this is a USA-centric list). Obviously with a list that short, I'm leaving people out, but that's what immediately comes to mind
Keep your head down for at least the first few months on the job to build a strong rapport with your team and develop some solid relationships that you can convert into references when the time comes. Generally, I'd say February of your 1st year is a good time to start hitting the books and practice LBO modeling (earlier if you're uncomfortable / don't get any experience in your group). There are a few guides out there, but by far your best resource is going to be departing 2nd Years who already have been through the process. If you have a decent group of guys in the class above you, they'll provide you with guidance on questions to expect, give you a mock interview or two, and might even provide you with actual case studies from interviews. Many of the BB and EB groups will have internal folders with materials from previous recruiting cycles as well. If your group doesn't, be sure to connect with your friends in other groups and gather all of the prep materials you can, because they exist
3a. I was one of the unfortunate people who had a group without many prep materials saved on the drive. Naturally, I assumed that the best way to prep would be just to study the questions 2nd Years offered up. It wasn't until a couple weeks before the recruiting process that I thought to reach out to friends in other groups. After I did, I immediately received a slew of practice models, a few case studies that had been used in previous years at top PE shops and several more interview guides. Definitely should have done that earlier.
3b. Although I took the headhunter intro meetings pretty seriously, one thing that I wish I would have done is follow up more consistently with the people I met during the recruiting process. Do not underestimate the role of headhunters, firms hire them for a reason, and often times they serve a real gating role before first round interviews
3c. Remember, remember, remember: These are NOT IB interviews. They are not meant to be formulaic, and although there will be a small set of questions you'll get in virtually every PE interview, the emphasis on technical prowess is very low relative to IB interviews. Most PE shops, even several of the MFs I mentioned, are small, lean organizations that can be incredibly selective with who they hire. When the MFs bring in a small group of kids almost exclusively from top groups at top banks, the chances of you standing out due to strong technicals is essentially zero. Have a personality, and show it. Take some risks in your interviews
3d. Related to that last point: Because these processes are so competitive, the choice of who receives offers and who doesn't can come down to very arbitrary preferences and - frankly - randomness. This frustrated me to no end. Nothing is more demoralizing than coming out of a final round interview where everything clicked, you had a great conversation with a Partner, and you're just certain you're getting the offer - only to never hear back. Have that happen a couple times (which it inevitably will if you're interviewing at a lot of shops in a short timeframe), and it can hurt your confidence. Do not think this way
3e. If you're like me, you'll find a few shops where you get to the final round, feel a really strong connection with the team and be just shy of getting the offer. I couldn't understand why this happened, until I met the group with whom I accepted an offer - it was literally a perfect fit for me: exactly the industry I wanted, exactly the type of personalities with whom I work well, exactly the fund size I wanted. What that taught me: When you've found the place, you'll know it and so will they. Until then, keep on moving
Good shit all around @NorthSider
Exceptional response from @NorthSider
There won't be any more of this January/Feb of second year nonsense. The MFs tried that once and it didn't work. It will be sometime around April of your first year.
The majority of hedge funds and PE firms will go at the same time and all within a 2-3 week time frame. One big firm will kick things off, and by the end of the day you'll already interviews scheduled with a dozen different firms.
If you're at a top group that lets you recruit freely, you will have the pleasure of juggling 5-10 interviews every day for two weeks (INCLUDING weekends), along with your usual banking work.
The process itself is a complete shitshow. You may have to turn down Blackstone because you have final rounds at Baupost in Boston that day. You may miss your KKR interview because you're getting far in your Warburg Pincus process and they want you to meet more people. A bird in hand right?
Getting a final offer at any of these places probably means you've done 10-15 (often back to back) interviews at that firm alone. If you thought college superdays were rough, you haven't seen anything yet.
If you are fortunate enough to receive one of the more coveted offers, you might think you can shop it around. But you'd be wrong. You'll have a day or two to decide, and some places will even tell you to cancel your other interviews if you want this offer. Very few people get more than one megafund offer because the truth is you'll be so tired and sick of the process that you'll be tempted to accept on the spot just to put an end to those two weeks of hell.
Most of this is accurate, if a bit alarmist.
The process is incredibly stressful, and it's very important to note that, unlike banking, you will not have time to shop offers around. 24-hour turnarounds are commonplace, while others will apply considerable pressure to accept on the phone when you receive the offer.
Conflicts certainly abound, and you'll have to make judgment calls about which processes you prefer (combination of your fund preferences and how well you are doing in the process). Much easier if you're restricting yourself to one geography, as the flights to Boston / Chicago / SF will put a wrench in other processes.
One thing that I would correct is that, while several (only the very, very large) hedge funds will go around the same timeframe as the PE shops, processes tend to be more protracted. A full HF interview process can take 4 weeks, and most funds are very focused on getting candidates that aren't looking for PE as well.
Haha this was definitely not my experience, but I didn't work in a "top group" so getting a MF offer for me took a considerable amount of luck.
Spot on.
@chemicals is this your personal experience?
Based on mine and some of my co-workers', although I changed most of the firm names
How early would you say is too early to start reaching out to headhunters whose information you have from past analysts, friends etc?
Depends. If you're in a BB / EB group, you can rest assured that headhunters will start contacting you in late November / early December as more information about timing comes in. No need to reach out before then. Like I said earlier, if January comes around and you find that you've heard from most but have a glaring omission (i.e. HSP never reached out), then is a good time to get in contact.
For other non-BB / EB / top-MM firms, December / January is a good time to start reaching out, as that's when most intro meetings start happening.
Senior year is pretty chill for me, so I have a lot of time on my hands to prepare myself well...
Not really. You'll come across the rare PE firm that has "case-style" interviews (obviously Bain, but one or two of the MFs / upper-MM firms I mentioned as well), but they aren't nearly as comprehensive or similar in a "strategic thinking"-sense. They are more structured around how you think about a company as an investor
Obviously Barbarians at the Gate is a must, but I don't think there's anything I'd say is "interview essential"
Thanks for all the help! +1 again.
Just want to say thanks for all the great information, everyone. I'd SB you all (especially NorthSider) if I had any.
Dumb question here: how to learn to think like an investor? Often times when working on a pitch for my MD, a lot of assumptions are arbitrary and the value creation processes are more or less the same all the time. In other words, how to transform myself from an IB analyst to an investor?
Most of that "mindset realignment" will be accomplished once you're actually working with other investors. No PE shop will expect you to come in with an innate sense for good investments. They are most concerned about seeing an intellectual curiosity and the sparks of thinking like an investor. That's what you want to convey in your interview: you didn't just process your MD's comments, you actually considered the business as an investment opportunity and developed your own view. Doesn't have to be "accurate" or "insightful", but it has to reflect an underlying desire to be in the PE business.
It seems like your pedigree (school, GPA, bank, group) predetermines what interviews you get, and once in the interviews, those who get offers do so based on fit, given that they have the basics down (modeling test, baseline performance on case studies/talking about deals, not offending the interviewer). What separates those who get offers from those who don't (what are the interviewers looking for beyond the basics)?
Very insightful! thanks
Thank you for the helpful comments. Can anyone speak to PE recruiting in NYC while working full time in Chicago? How difficult is it to coordinate/get interviews in New York while in the middle of your analyst stint elsewhere?
I sense an over-arching theme in your questions of "should I" or "should they"... bottom line is at the end of the day the outcome matters to you and no one else. If there is a failure to deliver or royal fuck-up, will you be satisfied to know that it wasn't you that dropped the ball?
So if a HH doesn't reach out to you for a particular opportunity and as a result you miss the boat, will sleep any easier knowing that it was the HH's fault?
Similarly, if a HH e-mails to your work e-mail and it gets flagged by IT and raised to HR and your boss, is it of any less consequence because they should have known better?
My key point is that its up to you to navigate through this process successfully. Even if you're at the very best group on Wall Street, I'd caution against 'sitting back' and letting them come to you. I'd be proactive in coming up with a list of firms you definitely want to interview with... identifying who does their recruiting, identifying any networking contacts you may have and pro-actively making sure nothing has been missed.... etc
When would be the best time to reach out to networking contacts at firms you are interested in (alumni from undergrad, former people from IB group, etc)? Early/Mid fall of 1st year or is this way too early?
Also interested
It's not unreasonable if you're hoping to make a consistent connection with someone, but it is way too early if you're just going to do one of those "let's jump on a call, I'll ask you the standard questions, follow up and never speak to you again but hope that you flag my resume."
I know everyone always makes a big deal about networking in IB and lower-MM PE, but in my experience, networking matters very little for upper-MM and MF PE recruiting. Obviously, if you have a strong connection at a fund you should make use of that relationship, and you should consult at least a few people the industry for legitimate career advice.
That said, of all the people I know with offers at one of the funds I mentioned by name above, I can't think of a single example of someone whose progress was meaningfully buttressed by networking. Some people had family connections that helped, others scored interviews through senior bankers making calls for them, etc., but no one I can think of got an interview because they cold emailed through an alumni network. I obviously don't know everyone, and I'm sure there are example; but my experience is that the upper-MM and MF processes place much less emphasis on networking.
Caveat that all of this changes dramatically when the conversation turns to MM and lower-MM PE recruiting, where initiative and networking matters quite a bit more. Also, if you're not in a group that has placed well historically, obviously networking will be incrementally more important.
Great- thanks for the thought out response. How about for a Leonard Green type- obviously upper MM in terms of AUM/fund sizes, but pretty small in terms of investment professions. Obviously all you'll be able to do is speculate, but would having some sort of relationship with a Partner or very senior person at this firm give any noteworthy advantage? Further, is it worth networking with MFs or is this a waste of time?
@NorthSider I cannot tell from your wording, whether you have accepted a PE offer yourself yet or not. Are you preparing to take your exit soon?
I have accepted an offer for Summer 2014.
Nice, congrats.
Can you also shed some lights on the networking strategies for the folks at non-GS/MS/JPM? Obviously MF / upper-MM are uphill battles; but for MM PE, how to be proactive in the recruiting process? Does cold-calling HH / associates (alum from school / past analysts from your group) work?
How does all of this change for hedge funds? I'm at a top group at MS / GS and it seems like there's this endless march of people who go top IB --> top PE --> B school, and then have to figure out what they actually want to do. That's obviously a bit more existential than financial, but I think as a response to this trend, people are starting to think of hedge funds more seriously. They're not 2 year programs, they're not "banking all over again, but with more granular modeling, slightly fewer weekends, and more process management" as a bunch of my friends at MF PE have described their jobs. It seems like the reason more people don't consider it is primarily circumstance (and secondarily risk aversion). The HF's have less structured recruiting processes, often go after PE has already started, and are often seeking immediate hires; how does one still manage to land one given these circumstances?
Most of the HFs I interviewed with recruited at the same time (or the week before), since they're all effectively competing for the same pool of candidates. These included Eton Park, Farallon, Baupost, SAC, Reservoir, Marcato, Och Ziff, Anchorage, etc.
Plenty of people interview with HFs, but it's not for everyone. I didn't find the thought of sitting behind a desk looking at stocks very appealing. If PE is banking 2.0, then HF is basically more advanced equity research.
That being said, there are lots of HFs that interview off cycle, which means they'll either pick up candidates who didn't get jobs in the initial cycle, or they'll find people willing to end their 2 year banking program early. I know plenty of people in the second category, and they got interviews through a combination of headhunters/personal network.
The largest HFs recruit around the same time that the MF / upper-MM PE process runs. HF processes are, of course, typically much longer, but if you are, indeed, the risk-inviting, off-the-beaten-path GS/MS analyst that you're describing above, enduring the longer processes will ultimately be worth it.
Also, this is entirely accurate:
Would love to hear you opine on the cultures of the MFs you interviewed with
This has been covered in other threads, but couldn't remember the answer/wanted some clarification- when talking to HHs do you have to commit to either wanting to go to a HF or PE, or is it possible to recruit for both? Depending on the answer to that question, at what point do you need to make it clear which route you are taking?
It is advisable to commit to one or the other with individual headhunters. It's fairly easy, however, to get yourself in both processes by telling the HF-heavy headhunters that you're interested in HFs and the PE-heavy headhunters that you're interested in PE. That said, if you're in a top group and you do well in your intro meetings, have a good story for why PE & why HFs, you'll be able to score interviews in both categories from the same headhunter.
Just be realistic: if you don't fit all the criteria I mentioned above, you're best served choosing one or the other based on the proficiency of the headhunter you're meeting with.
Thanks a ton. Very helpful. As excited as I am about the launch of the process (just got the first inbound from a major headhunting firm), it almost makes me wish the process were more delayed. I can have a half hour conversation with a friend at a PE fund and leave thinking PE is definitely the optimal route to take for me and pretty much any other banker, then have a conversation with a friend at a HF and think that HF's are the best thing since sliced bread and anyone who is going to PE is simply letting inertia dictate their lives.
Similarly want to go entrepreneurial long term, and you make a pretty solid argument as to why PE is better for that end goal. However, I feel like all banking / type A's can justify / rationalize any occupation to fit an end goal. If being a cashier at McDonald's paid $140k out of college and served as the gateway to PE / Hedge Funds, I'm sure every college senior and first year McDonald's cashier would be talking about the "great skill set" you build at McDonald's.
this is turning into an absolutely fantastic thread. thanks so much marcus and northsider.
Can anyone comment on how the process changes for regional PE shops (specifically Energy), and on the VC timeline?
Thanks all for the great responses. Very helpful.
A question that I had: How do people manage cases/interviews while working the long hours? For groups that have 24 or 48 hour cases (rare but I have heard happens)...how do you clear out a day or two to work on this? Even over the weekend this appears tough and will hurt your quality of work.
Also, as someone mentioned earlier...how does the process work if you are interviewing for a position in a different city? Can someone who has gone through the process comment on their experiences?
Thanks again all.
All of this has been extremely helpful, thank you both
1) Is there anything incoming analysts can do/study to learn basics about private equity before starting? 2) What is the best way to go about reaching out to school alumni and those in pe that used to work in your group? I'm not in NY, but will be spending the semester there and wanted to use this opportunity to network with people at NY firms. Is it too early to reach out? Is it acceptable to just send cold emails introducing myself and asking to meet? I'm interested in learning how they recruited for different geographies
Consequatur et quia consequatur non dolore. Rerum aut ad sed ipsum quidem.
Fugit pariatur excepturi et voluptatem. Et et ex laboriosam quo qui.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Sequi nostrum earum atque qui deleniti. In cupiditate enim nostrum explicabo ut. Enim autem voluptas reiciendis labore aliquam ut reprehenderit.
Aut iusto eos iure vero. Quo quo vero molestias necessitatibus ipsa non natus. Doloribus enim vitae est tenetur velit odit. Fugiat aspernatur culpa illum amet reiciendis quasi. Aut consequuntur impedit adipisci sit. Iusto voluptatem fugit ullam est sunt.
Vel blanditiis maxime rerum beatae autem nam. Et nesciunt laboriosam nam rerum atque. Eum rem qui voluptas ut quia non eos. Sed nisi ut architecto voluptatem quia.
Deserunt ea architecto aut omnis. Veniam illum et voluptatibus non. Est quaerat omnis ab delectus impedit qui. Qui eligendi voluptas sequi maiores tempora quibusdam sit. Et nihil voluptatem repudiandae rerum. Ratione accusantium praesentium aut sequi incidunt placeat culpa.