i got the e-mail alert and thought that the $2 was a typo also.

my eyes bugged out when i saw 2. holy hell

nyc123:
$20 a share, not $2... big difference

------

"its the running joke now, we now have fair trade with china so they send us poisoned sea food and we send them fraudulent securities."

------ "its the running joke now, we now have fair trade with china so they send us poisoned sea food and we send them fraudulent securities."
 

J.P. Morgan Chase agreed to buy Bear Stearns for $2 a share in a stock-swap transaction, people familiar with the matter say. J.P. Morgan will exchange 0.05473 shares of its common stock per one share of Bear Stearns stock. Both boards have approved the transaction.

People familiar with the discussions said all sides were pushing hard to complete an agreement before financial markets in Asia open for Monday trading. "None of these things is done until they're done," Treasury Department spokeswoman Michele Davis said Sunday afternoon. "But I think everyone's expectation is sometime in the early evening hopefully" the deal will be done.

One stumbling point appeared to be the amount of risk that J.P. Morgan would absorb in any type of transaction. While J.P. Morgan is eager to snap up some of Bear Stearns assets -- such as its prime brokerage business that caters to hedge funds -- Chief Executive Officer James Dimon was reluctant to pursue the deal without certain assurances that would protect his firm's exposure, said people familiar with the matter.

Despite the emergency funding from J.P. Morgan and the Federal Reserve that was announced Friday and gives Bear access to cash for an initial period of 28 days, the clock is ticking against the 85-year-old company. Regulators, bankers and investors are concerned that the firm could plummet even further when markets open Monday. A continued exodus by parties that Bear trades with could even cause the investment bank to collapse.

 

JP Morgan Chase is offering to buy troubled investment bank Bear Stearns for between $15 and $20 a share, CNBC has learned.

Jin Lee / ASSOCIATED PRESS Bear Stearns

Bear's board is currently meeting to discuss the proposal, which based on Bear's 118 million shares outstanding, would be valued at between $1.8 billion and $2.4 billion.

A deal in principle could be announced Sunday night, although the agreement would still need shareholder approval.

Here's what makes this a tricky situation: without shareholder approval, there is no real deal, so other banks and clients may be reluctant to deal with Bear on Monday unless it's part of a well capitalized JP Morgan.

Because of this, most executives inside Bear believe the Federal Reserve and Treasury will play some role in making sure there is a backstop if the shareholder approval isnt reached.

Of course, the deal itself could fall apart at the last minute, which would mean Bear would have to find another buyer, possibly JC Flowers.

An offer of $20 or less would be well below Bear's closing stock price of $30.85 on Friday, which was already down 47% for the day. As one senior Bear executive--who like most of the senior team is paid and continues to hold Bear stock--puts it: "based on the information i'm getting, lets just say I wont be retiring early." ...

 
slik vik:
why did Bear Stearns accept this? why couldnt other firms bid? and what does this mean for current employees/summer/ft hires?

There are going to be redundancies that need to be taken care of, but it will be awhile before that gets soreted out. For current FT analyst and associate offers I doubt this does anything. For summer interns it might mean a smaller % are offered FT jobs.

 

I see in the presentation that there will be $6bn of deleveraging, litigation, and consolidation and accounting reconciliation costs, and I think they explained the cost of deleveraging. Could someone just go over what it means exactly? From my understanding, JPM is going to buy bear and just pay down some debt, but why should shareholders be paid less than what everyone thought they were going to be paid ($20 vs $2) just so JPM can play with capital structure? I'm trying to imagine other scenarios in which company A buys a very leveraged company B. A still has to pay full market value for B shares, right? Or is JPM just saying that bsc shares are simply not worth even $20?

 
T73:
Can someone explain how the $2 thing can even theoretically happen? If others were allowed to bid, wouldn't they pay waaay more than this? I'm really curious...

Maybe others were not allowed to bid since JPMorgan was in charge of the temporary fix, maybe they had full control

 

If the deal falls through, they will file for bankruptcy meaning equity value will be $0. It doesn't matter what the share price was at close on Friday.

Shopping the company to other bidders takes time - time that Bear didn't have (as I said before, come Monday morning they would have filed for bankruptcy without a buyer in place). Also, important to note that the deal went through because the Fed is providing a $30 billion guarantee for some of Bear's liabilities. The Fed would not provide this kind of financing to just anyone. It is because it is JP Morgan that the Fed agreed to provide this.

 

Has there been a significant change in the Fed Funds Implied Probability? If someone could pull this up, I would be greatly appreciative of it. Now, looking at BSC and how this affects the FFIP... if BSC is going under and the FFIP hasn't seen a significant increase towards the 75BP Cut rate or higher, something is really fucked up here. I know we're all thinking it considering the Fed meets tuesday... now that's going to be an extremely fun meeting. Once Bad News Ben gets up there... how many points should we say the market will drop by?

 

others had taken a look (JC Flowers): "When Bear Stearns invited potential buyers for detailed presentations by department chiefs yesterday, only JPMorgan and private equity firm J.C. Flowers & Co. showed up, according to people familiar with the talks." http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&refer=home&sid=aWbXzzlz…

Most importantly though, few banks were as familiar with Bear (JPM was a rumored acquiror this summer) and few had the capital/knowledge to make a decision following a due diligence process JPM so confident that shareholders would approve the deal (other than for PR reasons)? what shareholder would approve a deal for less than the price of its headquarters?

 

$2> liquidation value of the firm. So, I still think it's a reasonable offer if JP takes care of the debt and moves all these pass-throughs on their balance sheet. I couldn't believe when I read yesterday that 186,000,0000 shares changed hands on Friday! Cannot confirm it, but I heard most of the shares outstanding are actually owned by employees, more than 25% of the company. They will really get screwed--doubble the pain if they lose their jobs and investments all at once.

 
 

haha

Delirium2:
I am digging out Bear Stearn's recruiting souvenir from last year. Might have some antique value some years from now. Lol.

------

"its the running joke now, we now have fair trade with china so they send us poisoned sea food and we send them fraudulent securities."

------ "its the running joke now, we now have fair trade with china so they send us poisoned sea food and we send them fraudulent securities."
 
Delirium2:
I am digging out Bear Stearn's recruiting souvenir from last year. Might have some antique value some years from now. Lol.

lol I'm saving the card of a Senior Managing Director at Bear I interviewed with.

 

Shareholders do get a vote. JPM was very confident on the call that shareholders would approve, though one flustered caller said he wasn't approving the deal.

Also, total transaction costs associated with the deal are estimated at $6B (source: JPM presentation).

 

Other firms have the chance to bid on it before the deal closes. Obviously the people at JP have a much better grasp of the situation than anyone here, which explains their confidence in the deal going through at $2. The $2 price is most likely fair, since nobody else wants it or can handle assuming the liabilities/counterparty risk that Bear Stearns is exposed to. Remember in the beginning Bear came to JP for help, so I am sure Bear thought they could get the best (only?) deal from them.

 

Un-freaking-believable. Historic downfall. I realize that the official definition of a recession has not been satisfied, but it would be stubborn for anybody to claim otherwise. I hope my friends at BS (both current and potential) are fine.

I wonder which bank is next. It is obvious that Lehman will take a big hit and might face similar fate. A buyout by another firm, which I originally struck out as an impossibility, now seems possible for Lehman. It seems that the banks are in much worse condition than we all suspected. I really don't want to make any other prediction other than that Lehman will be dramatically and negatively affected.

Anybody have any predictions for UBS?

 

Lookout, Lehman Brothers might be next....... Lehman is just a large version of Bear Stearns with slightly more diversified operations.

JPMorgan can use a respected prime-brokerage unit, however, they will have to also take aboard the not-so-hot IBD of Bear Stearns.

$2 a share is truly fucking crazy.

I thought it was a typo, but I guess I'm wrong. When looking at the situation, though, who in their right mind would want to buy a bank that has reached fame dealing mortgage related securities at this point in time????

I won't be surprised if Bear Stearns just collapsed to $0.

At least JPMorgan people might have a very nice office that is worth $1.5 billion alone right outside Grand Central.

 

Delirium2, interesting that you mention that UBS will split. It is an option that Rohner is not ruling out, so I do not blame you for your prediction. Although I hope you're wrong, I can only anticipate for the management to decide to preserve both the wealth management and investment banking businesses. Then again, we've experienced our first ever net-loss in a year in the history of the Swiss bank, so I'm not exactly expected to be completely optimistic.

Nevertheless, my gut feeling tells me that we will not make any radical decisions before some other firms (ex. Lehman) take a tumble. I believe the same for Citi. However, most of this is mere speculation. It is hard for anybody right now to predict anything concrete given what just happened with BS.

 

The only ironic thing is that many of the people on this forum (from Bear and other banks) laughed at the possibility of BB (or sub-BB) buyouts and now Bear-Stearns (Lehman Brothers next) is bought out at a laughably low price. $300mm (w/o risk)! The f'in headquarters is worth over a billion as it is! Bear was always not that great of an investment bank and they suffered because of it.

Reality hits you hard, bro...
 

The Bear Stearns laughable buyout price shows that even if you have a great prime-brokerage business, if you make a large percentage of your money in one area and that area goes to shit like it is now.....you are no longer going to exist.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but BS never lost money over 83 years of operations until recently. Hence, I can hardly consider them as being 'always not that great of an investment bank.' Granted, they were questionable at times, but I would hold back from insulting their abilities as an investment bank.

I agree, however, that Lehman seems to be next. It's very hard to avoid a run on a bank and Lehman will inevitably face similar situations as BS. Its share price, I believe, reflects the general publics' beliefs in the bank's capabilities.

 
StudentBanker:
also if JPM & Bear deal goes thru .... doesn't thing significantly raise the profile of JPM as TIER 1 Bulge Bracket?

StudentBanker: Nice first posts big guy. You took an extremely complicated situation with thousands of moving parts and distilled it down to one insightful question.

PS Change your screen name or I will make fun of you. You're the kind of tool that will consistently dilute the quality of otherwise interesting conversations.

PPS Ordinarily I wouldn't care, but in a case where thousands of employees could be adversely affected, your immaturity is insulting.

 

WTF is a TIER 1 Bulge Bracket?

If you're asking if this helps JPM, who knows it's far from done. Even if it does get done, there's a lot of waiting and evaluating to be done. There's 1,000 things that could go wrong and nobody has any idea if this will be a successful play.

You've really got to get off of the whole ranking nonsense.

 
nystateofmind:
WTF is a TIER 1 Bulge Bracket?

If you're asking if this helps JPM, who knows it's far from done. Even if it does get done, there's a lot of waiting and evaluating to be done. There's 1,000 things that could go wrong and nobody has any idea if this will be a successful play.

You've really got to get off of the whole ranking nonsense.

Good point, some people on this site have their mind to focused on prestige rankings.....Bear was considered a top five firm and look what happened...

 

The $2 appears to be predicated on JPM assuming Bear's trading losses, so while it may well be a bargain I doubt that it's a steal. In a more traditional deal, a buyer's loss may be limited to its initial equity investment, but that doesn't sound like the case here.

I'd compare it to buying a box filled with cash for pennies on the dollar - with the only catch being that the box likely also contains a ticking time bomb of unknown magnitude.

ideating:
I'd be interested to see what the deal is with the MAC... heard from different sources there either is or isn't one. I think with the Fed insuring a lot of the obligations, JPM is in a much better situation than we are presuming.

I'm don't doubt that a MAC is in place here, but of critical importance are the terms and conditions of said MAC.

I'm guessing that any MAC provisions would be pretty air tight, thus leaving very little room for JPM to back out of a deal.

 

Material Adverse Change...co's will typically add a MAC clause so that if new information that wasn't disclosed previously comes to the surface, they can reneg or change the terms of the deal.

 
Jack Bauer:
Material Adverse Change...co's will typically add a MAC clause so that if new information that wasn't disclosed previously comes to the surface, they can reneg or change the terms of the deal.

Broader, market-based MACs are also quite common.

Checked the press release though and you are correct - although I'd guess the lack of a MAC here is a product of the capital cushion they've been provided by the Fed.

 

MAC = Material Adverse Change = clause in the agreement that would allow JPM to back out if some market event happened that caused Bear to lose significant value.

Clearly, a MAC would be kind of absurd. Hard to imagine anything getting materially worse than this. And even if JPM says, "OK, we're going to exercise our rights under the MAC clause - deal's off" wtf do they do with Bear then?

Obviously, there's substantial risk and uncertainty to JPM here, but I think the $2 price reflects it. If JPM wanted to protect themselves via a MAC clause, then they shouldn't consider the deal at all. It's not that kind of deal - there's no time. Either you're in or out. If you're in, name your price. If you're scared, stay home.

 

I'd say the broader market is going to shit tomorrow as people are going to be scratching their heads thinking, "wtf is the fed doing". The Fed also extended their lending to all security firms for some time. Basically, I think people are losing confidence in the Fed's ability to prevent a recession and might even be making it worse by trying to.

EDIT: After looking at the foreign markets, I can say with almost certainty that the market is going to tank tomorrow.

Hang Seng: -1,046.29 -4.71% 21,190.82 Nikkei: -454.09 -3.71% 11,787.51

 

$2 a share, maybe for you but not for this guy hes getting 29.50/share because he used a stop-loss order

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAA

"it will be bloody, especially for those who cannot grasp simple concepts like stop loss orders! I will lose a lose few dollars a share since my order will be executed at $29.50 tomorrow but that's not that bad. How quickly you forget the basics, you never think of "What ifs." Learn! "

http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_T/threadvi…

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA PRICELESS

"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.
 
trade4size:
$2 a share, maybe for you but not for this guy hes getting 29.50/share because he used a stop-loss order

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAA

"it will be bloody, especially for those who cannot grasp simple concepts like stop loss orders! I will lose a lose few dollars a share since my order will be executed at $29.50 tomorrow but that's not that bad. How quickly you forget the basics, you never think of "What ifs." Learn! "

http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_T/threadvi…

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA PRICELESS

hilarious

 

haha lol im quoting the guy on the yahoo forum. a friend sent me the link, couldnt stop laughing. Its hilarious people dont even know basic market functiosn this isnt even a strategy flaw its plain them not knowing how execution works. so much for his "stop".

hahahahaha as if i thought a stop loss would protect me from a gap.

"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.
 

Xosere: That's funny... :)

What do you guys think about this guy:

Not that I'd want to advocate Cramer or support FED's actions in recent days/months, but honestly, it's hard to believe FED's doing this because JPM is its shareholder. $2 a share is a steal but God knows how much crap is on Bear's books that JPM will have to swallow. Also, it's funny to see a video of Cramer saying that BS about BS but honestly, how could he know? If ANYBODY knew this was gonna happen, they'd be billionaires today... Cramer just made the wrong bet. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Simple as that.

 

rumor on the street is that bond holders and guys who sold protection on Bear are major buyers on the stock so as to vote this through. In other words, $2 is a feasible end price for the stock.

 
gka:
rumor on the street is that bond holders and guys who sold protection on Bear are major buyers on the stock so as to vote this through. In other words, $2 is a feasible end price for the stock.

It's pure speculation, but intriguing none the less. Might this have been an anticipated outcome of the $2 offer all along (i.e., letting BSC creditors pay up a bit for insurance against a Chapter 7 bankruptcy)? Given that BSC employees held ~30% of the outstanding equity, and that a sure $6.00 offer might sound better to those folks than a potential deal going through at ~$2.30, it does seem possible.

To caveat, as if it were really necessary, this is nothing more than pure speculation by someone who doesn't have a clue how things will play out.

 

I attended a speech by Gary Parr yesterday (he's the main advisor to Bear Stears) and he said that there are two reasons why it's trading at $6 instead of $2.

1.) as mentioned, bondholders trying to gain control over the decision whether the deal should go through, trying to protect their bonds.

2.) this one was beyond my financial knowledge so I can't really explain what he was talking about :) It had something to do with hedge funds using credit swaps and other credit derivatives, doing I'm not exactly sure what :)

 
T73:
I attended a speech by Gary Parr yesterday (he's the main advisor to Bear Stears) and he said that there are two reasons why it's trading at $6 instead of $2.

1.) as mentioned, bondholders trying to gain control over the decision whether the deal should go through, trying to protect their bonds.

2.) this one was beyond my financial knowledge so I can't really explain what he was talking about :) It had something to do with hedge funds using credit swaps and other credit derivatives, doing I'm not exactly sure what :)

Not sure if it's the point you were trying to explain for #2, but there is speculation that hedge funds who are shorting BSC bonds and credit-default swaps are also bidding up the equity, in hopes that shareholders will reject any potential deal so long as BSC stays well north of $2, thus eventually forcing the Company into bankruptcy.

 

They aren't just buying "in hopes that shareholders will reject any potential deal," they are buying the votes so that they can help reject the deals. At $6 a share, you could buy 51% of Bear Stearns for roughly $350M. If you stand to make more than that on CDSs (or bonds, the other way) then there is no reason not to buy as many votes as you can get your hands on.

 
AltESV:
They aren't just buying "in hopes that shareholders will reject any potential deal," they are buying the votes so that they can help reject the deals. At $6 a share, you could buy 51% of Bear Stearns for roughly $350M. If you stand to make more than that on CDSs (or bonds, the other way) then there is no reason not to buy as many votes as you can get your hands on.

Of course they'd get the votes, but this isn't a practical strategy. Do you know understand how the process of buying and selling shares works?

Secondary market transactions require both willing buyers and sellers, and any dislocation between buyers and sellers has an impact on security prices. No fund could snap up 51% of BSC's outstanding shares without driving their price through the roof. Much easier to put a little pressure on the price and potentially influence votes on the ~30% of total equity being held by employees (which is largely restricted from trading).

 

Yes, I understand the impact on prices—that's why the stock is at $6 and not $2. They are not buying 51%—which would be impractical, I agree—but the bondholders and HFs are buying as much as they can, within reason, to sway the vote one way or the other. I only used the 51% = $350M numbers to illustrate that buying a significant chunk of Bear is very cheap right now, especially compared to potential billions in bonds or CDSs.

 

Thanks man. Though I wish they directly would say how interns would be dealt with (I know this is completely unrealistic and would not be issued in a press release), I'd like to make use of a fitting quote from Dumb and Dumber:

"So you're saying we've got a chance!?"

 

NEW YORK, March 17 (Reuters) - JPMorgan Chase & Co, which on Sunday agreed to acquire struggling investment bank Bear Stearns Cos for just $240 million, expects to cut about half of Bear's 14,000 employees, business news channel CNBC reported on Monday, citing unnamed sources. JPMorgan expressed interest in Bear's prime brokerage, securities clearing and equity trading businesses, and believes Bear's investment bankers can help expand the bank's own financial advisory business. Morgan is expecting the deal to generate $6 billion of expenses, from severance and retention to waves of litigation and asset write-downs. JPMorgan officials were not immediately available to comment.

They included Bear's INVESTMENT BANKERS...there might be some light at the end of tunnel...maybe.

 

Hey guys,

Do you think Lehman Brothers is going to follow Bear Stearns in terms of a total f*ck up!! There going to publish there results tomorrow, they've slashed jobs, and there share price has dipped 40% today!

What do you think?


"The future belongs to those who prepare for it today" - Malcolm X

--------------------------------------------------------------------- "The future belongs to those who prepare for it today" - Malcolm X
 

Looks like they're just going to wipe out anyone in a back-office position. Expanding prime brokerage, energy, and trade-clearing is the wise thing- those should've been the 3 backbones to Bear. They're still well-respected in those avenues, and I'd bet most of the bankers who stick will be involved in their energy business and telecom, where they've done a bunch of major deals of late.

 

I'm curious myself what would happen to folks with full-time offers or summer offers... I don't care from a personal standpoint, but it's a nasty situation to be in, I'm sure. I presume JPM takes on the contractual obligations to employees?

 

Hey all -

I'm actually supposed to intern there this summer...but the trader I initially interviewed with just got laid off today. Called around 12, said he was busy, so I tried again around 5. Some other person answers, and informs me that said trader "no longer works here".

As for the internship...it's anyone's guess though I've heard rumors that JPM will be absorbing us.

 
albert611:
Hey all -

I'm actually supposed to intern there this summer...but the trader I initially interviewed with just got laid off today. Called around 12, said he was busy, so I tried again around 5. Some other person answers, and informs me that said trader "no longer works here".

As for the internship...it's anyone's guess though I've heard rumors that JPM will be absorbing us.

http://dealbreaker.com/2008/03/no_one_not_even_the_hopeful_su.php

Then I'm assuming iy was you that leaked this to dealbreaker? Hope you enjoyed your 15 min of anonymous fame. I'm sure the rest of the BSC hopeful hires will love you spreading this rumor w/o knowing the truth behind what's actually going on.

 

You called a trader at Bear Stearns today to ask about your SA stint? Seriously?


"It is a fine thing to be out on the hills alone. A man can hardly be a beast or a fool alone on a great mountain." - Francis Kilvert (1840-1879)

"Ce serait bien plus beau si je pouvais le dire à quelqu'un." - Samivel

-------------------- "It is a fine thing to be out on the hills alone. A man can hardly be a beast or a fool alone on a great mountain." - Francis Kilvert (1840-1879) "Ce serait bien plus beau si je pouvais le dire à quelqu'un." - Samivel
 
fandango:
You called a trader at Bear Stearns today to ask about your SA stint? Seriously?

Haha, very good point that I don't think anyone picked up on. I know everyone on here is freaking out about this summer, but I'm guessing the traders at Bear have much more to worry about today than the status of your 10-week internship. It's probably better you didn't reach him.

Call HR, part of their job is to calm hyperventilating college students.

 
albert611:
When did I ever say I was calling specifically about my internship? Don't make assumptions, particularly when you could the one hyperventilating tomorrow.

Whether or not you called specifically to discuss your internship is irrelevant: the point was that it's kind of ridiculous for a college student to call a trader with whom he happened to interview at a time like this. A little inappropriate, unless he was a personal friend of yours, which he clearly wasn't, because you would have mentioned that to begin with.

 

I'd like to state that soulsearching is full of shit. Not only did he say there was a "rumor" that everyone below the VP level was going to be let go at Bear (by poorly citing the merger agreement which didn't elude to anything of the sort), but now he's making reference to a "legitimate source" though it's a hallmate's friend.

I'm currently an anxious/worried SA with Bear. I am trying to stay optimistic, but I realize the odds may not be on my side. That said, I did not receive any news today. Maybe this SA was in a different department than I, but I'd take what this dbag says with a grain of salt.

 

Guys on here who make these claims without knowing for sure what is going on is a severe loser. I will admit, I have become somewhat a frequent reader of these boards and I have found some useful information because of it. However, anyone coming on here making wild claims and trying to get people all riled up needs to find a hobby.

I am/was going to be a SA in Bear's IBD and I am awaiting news but it is 100 percent out of my control. I have not contacted anyone at the bank because I believe that it is somewhat innapropriate to contact people who have legitimate worries to ask about my own situation. I feel for the guy with 3 kids and a house he needs to pay down who just saw his stock in the firm widdle away to nothing. Those are the guys with real problems. In the grand scheme of things, myself and my class will make it out ok. None of us are trying to pay our mortgage, pay for our kids college and plan for retirement. We are all young and obviously had some smarts to get into a bank in the first place. I firmly believe this will all pan out and we will become stronger in some way or another. Stay positive, and hopefully something will work out, it always does.

 
KMM:
Guys on here who make these claims without knowing for sure what is going on is a severe loser. I will admit, I have become somewhat a frequent reader of these boards and I have found some useful information because of it. However, anyone coming on here making wild claims and trying to get people all riled up needs to find a hobby.

I am/was going to be a SA in Bear's IBD and I am awaiting news but it is 100 percent out of my control. I have not contacted anyone at the bank because I believe that it is somewhat innapropriate to contact people who have legitimate worries to ask about my own situation. I feel for the guy with 3 kids and a house he needs to pay down who just saw his stock in the firm widdle away to nothing. Those are the guys with real problems. In the grand scheme of things, myself and my class will make it out ok. None of us are trying to pay our mortgage, pay for our kids college and plan for retirement. We are all young and obviously had some smarts to get into a bank in the first place. I firmly believe this will all pan out and we will become stronger in some way or another. Stay positive, and hopefully something will work out, it always does.

Speak it brotha'

 

i posted this elsewhere, but now i cant find the topic or its tracking on my acct, so just to reiterate whati said before:

i dont want to be alarmist, but if you are a bear sa, you really should not be adopting the wait and see approach. i don't have any insider info, haven't heard any rumors, etc.

but consider the following:

it costs roughly 20k to employ a summer intern for the summer after employer taxes. if there are 100 summer analysts, that is a cost of 2 million dollars, or a little less than 1% of bears market cap according to jpm.

and remember, summer analysts add zero value to the firm--they are a pure human capital investment. this makes sense for an organization that is growing etc-->not one that is about to lay off half its staff. if youre going to be in bear energy, equities, or pb, youd probably be ok. otherwise, really start the search for alternative opportunities.

 

I am a college athlete, and have been in sports my whole life. I have played at levels where coaches get paid to win and therfore treat kids like shit just to do so. If I was a coach/company, and you gave me the opportunity to have an 40 kids come to my tryouts/intern to see who will make it into my team/company, I would do it in a heart beat. JPM obviously did not pick an intern class full of all stars, no firm ever does. If they pick up Bear's class, they end up with a 09 FT analyst class of top talent (the best from both). To me, it is worth the 2 million dollars (subtract it off the 1.4 billion of the building and your left with 1.398 billion lol).

 

just my opinion but I doubt they honor Bear SA's in IBD, you're looking at a business environment where everyone on the street is cutting back jobs due to the difficult market and lack of deal flow. JP has a higher rated IB than Bear, their mentality in this is that they are the superior bank and they will take who they like and who can add value. that is certainly not an SA, plus JP hasnt interviewed these SA's so they are going to go with the guys they hired themselves. this isnt just an SA issue either, there are sure to be plenty of analysts/associates that are in Bears program that are going to be let go, doesnt matter if they are cheap or not. again this is just my opinion but across IBD id be shocked if more than 15% of Bears people come out of this employed. in FI Cap Mkts/S&T id think itll be the same or worse, with some mbs people staying on since Bear has some top notch mbs guys. honestly its out of your control as to what happens, the best thing you can do is try to find other opportunities for yourself in case the SA program is cancelled. by that point you will most likely have more clarity on the situation and will be able to make a better decision.

 

i want to make one point that hasn't been made yet. it is very important for bulge bracket banks to have good relationships with target schools (undergrad and MBA). If JPM does wind up not honoring Bear's PT and FT offers, it would likely strain their relationships with schools. i'm not saying it won't happen but it is one reason why they may wind up honoring more offers (or giving 1 year deferrals or even severance) than pure economics would suggest.

Author of www.IBankingFAQ.com
 

to xqtrack: there are only 35 SAs at Bear Stearns, not 100, which would mean it costs less than $1M to keep us. that's petty change compared to Bear or JPM's market cap.

to analyst26: i have no insider info myself, so this is all my own opinion. but you also have to think about the fact that all 35 SAs WERE interviewed and ARE qualified candidates. the only difference between firms is culture. certain banks will choose certain candidates not only based on how technically proficient they are, but how the firm feels the candidate will fit into the firm. with JPM's new acquisition, they will need to integrate Bear's culture in some way. from that standpoint, to say that they wont honor Bear's SA contracts because they are a superior bank and have interviewed and hired only the SAs they want doesnt make too much sense.

 

ex-banker: I was thinking something along those lines. Maybe they'll keep the class for that reason. That said, as a non-target I suppose I'd still be at risk, unless they decided to keep the entire class.

KMM: I totally agree. The summer analyst program is like aquiring slave labor. We're only on their books for 2 months, and Bear has probably taken care of a good bit of the work already. All they have to do is let us work our asses off for them and then can fire us all shortly afterward if we are really that substandard to their recruiting class that is coming in.

 

thestreet86: i really doubt they would honor offers from targets and not from non-targets. whatever they wind up doing, i would be shocked if it wasn't consistent for the whole class (in terms of target/non-target). different functions/groups might get very different treatment.

Author of www.IBankingFAQ.com
 

you really think that JPMorgan's relationship with schools is going to play a factor in this for them? what's going to happen...is harvard's career services going to put in a phone call to jamie dimon and be like, 'yo jamie, we know you're throwing out 7,000 people and that all of them now have life savings worth jack shit...but seriously, think about the summers. we're watching you..." do you think that next year princeton recruits are going to be like, you fuckers fired the Bear Stearns summer analysts even though you kept all your own, so i'm not going to go to JPM?

even if there are only 35 summer analysts...that's still a cost of 600k to the bank. or 2 traders. or 2 associates. ie, people who add value. summer interns are trainees. in s&t, you guys aren't even licensed to do anything. in ibd, you could still crank out models, but that assumes that bear has models to be cranked out that the current non-fired staff couldn't handle.

anyways, i'm done on this topic--regardless, i really hope things work out for you guys. i have some friends who were going to be at bear this summer, and i hope you all get lucky. but really, start the work looking for an alternative offer now; you have nothing to lose.

 
xqtrack:
you really think that JPMorgan's relationship with schools is going to play a factor in this for them? what's going to happen...is harvard's career services going to put in a phone call to jamie dimon and be like, 'yo jamie, we know you're throwing out 7,000 people and that all of them now have life savings worth jack shit...but seriously, think about the summers. we're watching you..." do you think that next year princeton recruits are going to be like, you fuckers fired the Bear Stearns summer analysts even though you kept all your own, so i'm not going to go to JPM?

even if there are only 35 summer analysts...that's still a cost of 600k to the bank. or 2 traders. or 2 associates. ie, people who add value. summer interns are trainees. in s&t, you guys aren't even licensed to do anything. in ibd, you could still crank out models, but that assumes that bear has models to be cranked out that the current non-fired staff couldn't handle.

anyways, i'm done on this topic--regardless, i really hope things work out for you guys. i have some friends who were going to be at bear this summer, and i hope you all get lucky. but really, start the work looking for an alternative offer now; you have nothing to lose.

Well said. It's a hilarious notion that JPM would even think about relationships with universities at this point. In bad times, companies will withdraw offers - it happened in 01-02 with I-Banks and Consulting firms, and it might start happening again here shortly.

Of course the career mgmt office at each school is not happy about it, but WTF are they going to do? Stop JPM from recruiting their kids? That's going to do more harm to their own students rather than JPM. It's a buyers market right now, and the best thing to do is to come to this realization and grab any IB job/internship you can get.

 

im with xqtrack here. they arent going to care about hurting their rep with schools, even if they were banned one year from campus you think kids wouldnt be falling over themselves trying to get hired anyway? you need to be realistic, these firm dont care about SA's, it dog eat dog. you think if there was good will on wall st jp would've paid $2/share for bear? to the poster above, jp most likely thinks the SA's they hired are better than Bears so with that in mind they will proceed with the people they hand selected. again just my opinion

 

look, i'm not saying repuation is going to be the most important factor in whether JPM honors Bear SA offers, but yes I do think that it plays a role. And yes, reputation on campuses is worth more than 600k. The issue is not that JPM won't be able to fill slots in years to come, it is that they may not be as competitive for top candidates if reputation is damaged. Finally, these firms do care about SAs. Why else would they have them (given that they are pretty much useless from a work product standpoint)?

Author of www.IBankingFAQ.com
 

read something earlier today that pretty much sums up the situation. "when Rome wins, Romans take over" you can choose to believe different and maybe they will decide to honor all SA offers, as a matter of fact i hope i am wrong so you guys get a good experience during the summer but that doesnt change my point of view of what i think is the most likely outcome.

 

All my support goes out to you guys.

A few of my thoughts..

To disagree with a statement above, JPM absolutely cares about the Bear SAs. The last thing they want to do is a lay-off a class of strong candidates. It hurts everybody. However, JPM's priorities are with its shareholders.

Is it difficult to lay someone off? Yes!

Is it hard to crush someone's hopes and plans? Yes!

We all know that at the end of the day JPM will do what is best for JPM.

Is JPM concerned about its relationship with core-schools? Yes! Is it concerned enough to be fiscally irresponsible? No! Does career services understand this? Yes! Next year those target schools will be throwing more resumes at JPM because Bear is gone.

My advice to Bear SAs: take initiative (you guys are used to doing this anyway), stop reading this stupid thread and go find some fantastic opportunity to replace your internship if necessary.

 

I think it basically has to close. I don't have much inside info, but I don't see how all who are involved could afford to not let it close. That said, if there is much resistance now after upping the offer 5x, I don't think JPM will be extremely happy.

 

With the 39.5% stake JPM just bought up and the guarantee of the board's 5%, this deal seems like a lock from a voting perspective. Large shareholders, however, have promised to put up a legal fight as well. In reality, the deal may never go through and all that happens is JPM comes away with a bargain basement deal on 40% of a company that they helped weather through the liquidity crisis. If in a years time a new deal is negotiated, or no deal goes through but Bear is solvent with $80 per share book value, JPM would stand to make a ton of money if the stock reappreciated.

Just my 2 cents.

--There are stupid questions, so think first.
 

It's a bit mind blowing to hear people arguing against BSC approving a deal (my favorite argument is the one involving the value of BSC's building, since it points out just how poor of an understanding some folks have regarding equity, and not asset, value). One bit of rational commentary that I enjoyed reading:

“Bear was going to fail as of Monday. Bye bye equity and many if not most jobs. How hard is this to understand? I thought anyone who was remotely financially literate understood what bankruptcy means. The employees should be grateful to get anything. But no, the media slavishly accepts their sense of entitlement.”

 

smuguy - I agree, the building argument is hilarious. I loved explaining to people: "Yes, the building is worth 1.2 Billion, and JP Morgan offered .2 Billion. That means that the Bear Stearns business is worth -$1B." Of course that is an oversimplification, but it really puts things in perspective—Bear was totally fucked no matter what. Nice quotation, where was that from?

 

I kind of liked the idea of BSC's shareholders being wiped out; you'd hope it would make other bankers think twice before taking big gambles with "house" money.

Of course it ends up being the risk arbs buying at the bottom who make the money. I was always expecting JPM to raise its bid but 10 bucks is steep considering the backing of the gov't would make it very hard for another bidder to come in with the same credibility. Maybe they just wanted to sew the damn thing up?

It's a neat time to be alive.

 

I read some interesting conspiracy theories about the role of creditors in the whole mess (i.e. they started buying up shares to make sure their interests were truly at the forefront). Any insights on that front?

 

Dimon should've been a hard-ass on this. He could've, as nobody was swooping in to offer 10x. They already had 39.5% of the company, plus the rights to the building. So much for strong-arming them and teaching people a lesson about diversification. I feel bad for BSC employees, but as their stock tumbled from $170 to the $60s in the span of a few months, you'd think most of them would've started moving their shares out of the company.

 
gomes3pc:
Dimon should've been a hard-ass on this. He could've, as nobody was swooping in to offer 10x. They already had 39.5% of the company, plus the rights to the building. So much for strong-arming them and teaching people a lesson about diversification. I feel bad for BSC employees, but as their stock tumbled from $170 to the $60s in the span of a few months, you'd think most of them would've started moving their shares out of the company.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

They did not have 39.5% of the company, that came with this new deal. 39.5% is a huge win for them, if the courts end up allowing it. They previously had the option to buy 19.9% if the shareholders rejected the initial deal. This way they get to buy twice as much before the shareholders stage a revolt.

Since when is Dimon's stated goal "strong-arming them and teaching people a lesson about diversification"? His goal is to make money for the JP Morgan shareholders by securing a great deal as quickly and efficiently as possible. This $10 offer and the new provisions may have sealed the deal perfectly, as it was far from certain at $2.

Also, do you think partners at Goldman are diversified? When restricted stock makes up a big chunk of your bonus you don't exactly have a choice.

Buy at $170, sell at $60? That is absolutely insane. No one could have predicted that it would be at $2 a few days after it was $60. Btw, it was at $170 over a year ago, not "within a few months."

 

I was one of the Bear hires in their IBD. Obviously everyone knows the story, JPM left us with no information about our status for about a month after they purchased Bear, then told us they rescinded our offers and would give us jobs at non-profits, AND we would be part of their Early recruiting process and have the chance to interview at JPMorgan.

Then they called us in for an information session in their NYC offices, and informed us that there would be no interviews for IBD or S&T, and they would allow us to interview for things like Private Banking, Prime Brokerage, Commercial Banking, etc. Fine, no problem, in this market I just wanted to get something and some of their options sounded interesting to me.

They arranged for a first round phone interview in the third week in August, where we expressed our interest in which divisions we were interested in. Since that time, I have ONLY received anything from them in response to my emails asking what was going on. I emailed them the first week in Sept. and they said I should expect a response "shortly." Emailed them again the last week in September since I still hadn't heard anything, and they said I should be hearing in the next 2 weeks.

I definitely feel like we are all being jerked around. I guess they really have no obligation to us, and they were good enough to get us some jobs for the summer, but I feel as though they should be true to their word and not mislead us, at least tell us something and not leave us hanging like they did when they bought the company, and had us continue to fill out paperwork for the internship, and then finally rescind the offer. We were promised "early interview opportunities" or something of the like, and that definitely did not happen. Doesn't speak well for their company as far as I'm concerned.

NEVER lose your BlackBerry www.conveniencesoftware.com

 

Just commenting to confirm what CS said. I actually spent my summer at JPM in a different part of the bank and had a first round interview, yet had to call myself to find out that JPM had no plans to move forward with me in the process (after one week, then three because I received no reply initially). Is it disappointing? Yes, of course, but frankly I expected very little to begin with.

That said, it may have been good for me to see this side of the industry. I realize the advice is often given to renege with seemingly no regard. I've got news for everyone out there - I can't agree more with those sentiments after this past recruiting season.

JPM could have cared less about me or my situation - not saying they should have either, but it was a harsh dose of reality, that's for sure.

 

Have either of you considered your legal options against JPM for their breach of contract, or do you just write it off as a lesson learned that a contract is worthless when they hold all the cards?

 

Yea, my father is an attorney and says we have next to no rights... however, he is not 100% sure considering we signed an agreement not to sue them in exchange for keeping the housing stipend and being given access to the "early interview" process. They said they were going to choose who they wanted from the Bear Stearns pool before looking at anyone else... thusfar I have not found that to be the case.

NEVER lose your BlackBerry www.conveniencesoftware.com

 

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