General Pedigree

What's the difference? You can't change your past.

I am just wondering because top HF and PE firms top dogs all did top 10 UG and MBA. Do they view the top MBA enough or do they look at UG too?

I guess my example would:

Person A - Good GPA from U Florida and Top of class at HBS
Person B - Good GPA from Princeton and Top of class at HBS

If experience is equal, and the interviewer is a HBS guy from Yale UG will he pick B just because of his UG?

To answer the above question, it does not matter I am more curious than anything.

this thread is so stupid i just have to comment.

all other things being equal, including social skills/personability/looks, and you had to choose one of the two candidates... why WOULDNT you pick the princeton guy? even if a state schooler was doing the hiring, wouldnt he want a princeton man in his office rather than some T50 state school chump? your UG institution is something thats apart of you forever, thats your pedigree, and getting into a top MBA program doesnt wipe that out of your life, unfortunately.

That is exactly what I was looking for in an answer, basically everything would have to be equal to hire the guy from a top UG. However, all it would take is a "state schooler" from Wharton to beat a Princeton guy from Columbia OR a "state schooler" from GS to beat a Princeton guy from Lazard.

And it is just great that you automatically label the "state schooler" as a chump.

Pedigreed got it right this topic is stupid, however, his comment was even worse and to THAT I must reply.

Being one of this "pedigree", having gone to a top 3 school for UG, I can honestly say that after you have some experience and a top business school no one cares where you went to UG or SAT scores. Everything being equal, which is never the case, it would depend where the people making the decision went to school.

Though you will find a lot of pedigree in the top of companies, ask Jamie Dimon, Dick Grasso, Gay Cohn and Gary Crittenden where they went to undergraduate and how it affected their career.

Of course there are great minds who went to top schools, but the trend to overall candidate is really trumping pedigree. At ML our top 2 bankers where from state schools: Rutgers and U Virginia, besides me of course HA!

In all seriousness there are somethings that will always help in this crazy business world, but if you go to an M7 you are right at the top, and you can let your experience speak for itself.

If you've done the right stuff, worked hard, networked with the right peoplem, and believe/act like you're twice as capable/competitive as that Princeton kid, you'll be fine.

The minute you start asking these questions, it means you're insecure, and you'll fail. Someone already mentioned it, but once you're in, no one gives a crap. And sure, there is the argument that it's the point: getting in. BS. You can always find state-school kids who permeate the top ranks. They are a minority, but not because of their skill. They were the ones who wanted it bad enough.

Callin' it like I see it...

Alpha hit it on the head.

It is usually the non pedigree guys, the ones who go to state schools like Cornell, Dartmouth and Brown who respond like pedigreed. I think too many people read anecdotes such as www.leveragedsellout.com and believe that we all sit in our cubes and slap hands and throw around chest bumps.

Now that I am on the corp side of it all I am making more money and working with a greater mix of folks and I am impressed by state schoolers, private schoolers, LAC people and Ivyers. The second you let the distinctions bother you and throw you for a loop is when the differences matter.

My buddy, who works for a top HF, says they have a great mantra there about this: "If you are making money for me I don't give a fuck who you are or where you came from."

In closing, breaking in is tougher, but the reason you see so many people at top schools dominating position is not only because they went to HYP, it is because they are very motivated. People who go to "lesser" schools are not as prevalent because they are not as motivated. It is corny to say but if you want it you well get it. So shut the fuck up and stop caring where you are from. You can go to a state b-school and still make it and if you do go M7 then I guess welcome to the club.

Oh and half these cocky fuckers, who are analysts and associates, will soon be replaced by kids from Jadavpur University any day now.

but the M7 school stuff is meh.

personally, i think the top undergrads have VASTLY superior students than the top business schools. i've been very underwhelmed by b-school students in general.

HAHAHA that made laugh out loud. Though it also scares me a little.

I agree that M7 has its share of the not elite but those analytical types are brilliant, at least where I work.

You're probably right, I go to Northwestern so its just barely a target (some call it "semi-target"), but even so its hard to escape the fact that so many doors are open to me that arent open to state schoolers at all. But I'm still a student, so I probably should not have been so quick to comment in the first place.

I wouldn't say kids from state schools are less motivated. When BB firms arent even recruiting from your campus, and every person you try to network with slams doors in your face, even highly-motivated students would get discouraged and settle for TAS at a Big 4. I know a lot of people from schools like UIllinois and private schools in chicago like DePaul and Loyola who are really sharp, motivated, and hard working, more than many Northwestern kids I know, but they have a very slim chance at even BB PWM because of heavy competition from UChicago and Northwestern people

Lastly, my original comment was purely an answer to CompGroup's question about "Who would you choose" between a Princeton and UF guy. In the long run, where you went for undergrad probably becomes irrelevant, except for bragging rights ("pedigree"). I know tons of parents, including my own, who went to no-name schools and are now making more than your average doctor, and that honestly says a lot more about one's character than going to Harvard and having every opportunity at your footstep by the age of 21.

The answer is no, ugrad and SAT scores don't really matter after a top bschool--especially if it's HSW.

And for the record: all else equal with the HBS grad from princeton/state school, I would take the state school guy. He had to work harder to get to HBS than the princeton guy.

sorry, but what's M7 and what schools comprise the category. Thanks.

Pedigreed -- I think you're confusing myself with CompGroup (who are you and why did you take my name?!?!)

To answer CompGroup's question, at that point undergrad really has very little impact. I sit on the recruiting committee for my bank and am actively involved in discussions and ultimately decisions for which associate candidates we hire. The only time undergrad ever comes up is if the applicant went to a southern school (we like that). Sometimes we talk about their undergrad -performance- but never, ever do we discount them for the actual school attended.

In fact, I'm even seeing more of the same in my personal job search. I've been interviewing with some of the most prominent names in private equity after only a year out of undergrad. I went to one of those lesser known business schools and I didn't even major in eco/fi/acct. As mentioned above, the trick is to excel regardless of where you attend school. Don't tell people how bad you want it, show them.

HBS
Wharton
Columbia
Stanford
Kellogg
Chicago
Sloan

Since I have not, to answer the original question: it does not matter where you went to UG and your SAT score. The only time that stuff comes up is when you first meet someone and you give them a short history or when college sports are discussed.

There are no secret handshakes amongst Ivys guy and gals and once you get a job the next job will see you as the kid who was an analyst at a BB then the guy who worked in corp development, graduated from an M7, etc. Keep your head high and get after whatever you want to do that makes you happy.

Lastly, to address the comment that Ivy people are VASTLY superior to M7 graduates. I find this interesting because it has been my own experience that those poor performing M7 students are usually the ones who went to top UG schools, probably those who have been on a free ride their entire life. Top M7 graduates, no matter their background, are very comparable, if not better better than their UG counterparts.

What's the appeal of Southern schools?

Ideating -- Because we're in the South.

Haha makes sense... a surprising number of certified users aren't in NYC it seems. Maybe I am overestimating what % of US bankers are NYC based.

Nah -- it is just the nicer ones that like to contribute that are located outside of NYC! Joking...

I don't understand this comment. Don't discount the person who happened to have worked very hard when they were a teenager in order to get into Harvard. That sort of commitment takes character and they deserve to reap the benefits of their achievements. Just because people like your parents figured out how to be successful without getting a degree from a top UG school doesn't make them better people. It means that they're motivated to excel--just like most of the people who went to top targets.

That's right! Stick up for the little guy (HUG graduates).

What about the teenagers who didn't have the guidance needed to understand why they should work hard? Everyone that I've met who has been motivated and hardworking have had great guidance from someone in their life. I have sympathy and respect for the people that didn't have that guidance early on in their lives, and have to figure it out on their own later on. Maybe they missed the Harvard boat, but it is encouraging to hear that they can still do well later on in life.