Getting married young is the best.
I got married at 21, my wonderful wife was 24. I graduated early and she finished her masters. We’ve been married for 2.5 years, no debt, both work, have a house, and are expecting our first child, a girl, next month. We’re growing up together and making the most out of life. I wouldn’t have it any other way.
I’ve surrounded myself with couples who got married young and are staying together or have stayed together many years, absolutely thriving. We generally make more money and are more fulfilled than our unmarried relatives/friends/alumni. My intuition, and articles online, tell me we’re not an isolated group.
I’m not here to brag. I see many of us on here posting about relationships, having dates and flings just to satisfy bare minimum desires. Many times, these people sound either immature or depressed. Sometimes y’all are just chilling and curious about dating advice. Even so, it makes me think of the bigger picture.
It’s been the norm for awhile to push off marriage into our 30s or even later, if at all. This has led to a steep decline in birth rates. Anyone who took a finance course knows deep down this is a bad trend socially and economically, but we don’t see an alternative, with 50% divorce rates and climbing, student loans, and apps filled with shallow people.
Finance professionals are the last people who should be single. We have plenty of money and enough time to invest in other things besides ourselves. We’re not starving in Africa spending 12 hours a day hunting or anything. Even people there get married pretty easily. In fact, billions of poor people have been getting married across the world for thousands of years.
But we all know why many of us now choose to stay single: we are self absorbed. It’s human nature with all this money and success to look inwardly. But this isn’t good, and I’m sure many of you actually want to be married if things worked out.
Here’s my idea: make marriage a priority. Find someone, through whatever channels you can, who aligns with you (beliefs, money, kids, relatives), and make it happen. If you’re not ready, make yourself ready. Below are reason why.
When we push off marriage into our 30s after years of 80+ hour work weeks and dealing with our own life, there’s unavoidable problems:
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We either wait for kids or don’t even have them. This is true for both singles and those in long term relationships. This is a devastating trend that takes away so much meaning in the world. Kids are obviously difficult, but they’re wonderful and I can’t wait to raise my own. Most of us should have them to, at the very least, give us some responsibility in the world beyond pleasing our overlords and getting that top tier bonus.
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We get set in our ways in our 30s and there’s no room to let our spouse change us. I’m glad I get to grow up and change with my wife rather than be stubborn and at odds with her from the start.
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We waste our 20s and don’t take life seriously enough to make something out of ourselves. Marriage tends to knock sense into people, especially men, and the earlier the better.
Some benefits of marriage I’ve experienced:
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You go through life’s suffering together. Sure there’s happy times, but when life is hard, relatives pass away, you lose your job, etc. it’s so nice to go through it together.
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Seeing my daughter on the ultrasound changed my life. My life is devoted to her now. My life is not for my goals or ambitions anymore. That’s surprisingly relieving and fills me with purpose.
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My dumb thoughts and ideas get QC’d by my wife. It’s humbling but makes me a much better man.
Think about the meaning of life, responsibility, fulfillment, anything to get you beyond your hedonistic instincts. If someone asked you point blank if your personal happiness is the most important thing in your life, you should be able to easily say no and point to more important things.
When you start thinking this way, all the marriage pitfalls go by the wayside. Divorce is taken out of your vocabulary. You start seeing there’s more eligible people who want to be married than you think. It takes time but it happens. I know if you folks give it a chance, marriage would be more attainable than you might think.
Some qualifiers to this post:
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2.5 years of marriage isn’t long, so I’m not some marriage guru with infinite wisdom in the Himalayas or anything. Just speaking from observation, a little experience, and listening to other married men I respect.
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If you’re 35 and not married that obviously doesn’t automatically mean you’ve messed up or your life is ruined. Moreover, being single is a great time to grow yourself and enjoy your independence. There’s nuance.
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Finance is super demanding and for some it’s a commitment worth pushing off personal goals, sorta like the military. But for 99% of us, we don’t need to push off something as important as love and family for our careers. I manage to make being an IB Associate and a husband work. My wife has proper expectations and I make sure to set work boundaries when possible.
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“But the divorce rates! I’ll be like my sad MD making alimony payments in my 40s and 50s.” No man, not if you have a solid backbone and don’t allow divorce in your vocabulary. With great power comes great responsibility. You will have your whole family’s future in your hands. If you and your spouse stay aligned on handling the basics (beliefs, money, kids, relatives), you won’t become your sad MD.
Call me old fashioned or tell me the game has changed, I just call it like I see it. Highly recommend getting married young. It’s the best.
Ok
lmao
Rolling the dice here. I wonder what the odds are of divorce for people who marry young and where the man is the younger of the two. I like the sentiment of the post at least and hope it works out for OP.
So many options:
As someone much older (still 30s but on the wrong end) and not yet married, it's nice to hear a story from the 'other side' that worked out. However, getting married young worked best FOR YOU. I had a long-term relationship when I was in my early 20s and it ended quite acrimoniously after several years. If I got married to her early, I wouldn't be singing the same tune as you for sure.
Nah im good
Further reading
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
Who the fuck has this much time to write this, aren’t you married?
he pretends that he's working so he doesn't have to get back to reality of miserably boring married life
What an odd take. You sound like a fundamentalist or something.
1. You got married at 21 to an older woman. Which means she likely started dating you as a teenager. That’s gross dude, you sure you were not groomed? Teens don’t exactly have the best long term thinking.
2. You are now having a child at age 23. Do you know many people mature enough at 23 to raise a kid? I don’t.
3. You say you make more than your single friends (well duh, you have double income, great observation captain obvious) and are more fulfilled. Are you taking fulfillment polls of all your friends? How could you make such a blanket statement lol?
4. You then say people who date in their 20’s only have flings and sound depressed and only dare to satisfy their bare urges. Really? Someone can’t date happily in their 20’s to figure out what they want in a partner? What if you don’t fall in love early? You’re supposed to just force a marriage early? The only people I have ever seen get married early are couples who had an accidental pregnancy, ugly or live in a “Bible” type community where they push ideas like no premarital sex or a woman should have kids early. How do you explain my observations?
5. You then say it’s the norm to wait until your 30’s to get married. Again, that’s only in urban cities. Have you ever visited middle America? Rural communities? Places in deeply Republican state? They don’t wait to get married or have babies, so I have no idea wtf you’re talking about. And then you say birth rates are declining, meanwhile it’s known the world’s population is increasing. So you’re either lying to support your theory or are generally naive about world stats.
6. You then say finance people should marry early and then say poor people marry early all the time to support your view. That actually supports my view. Getting married early actually perpetuates the poverty cycle as your observation points out lol.
7. You then say people who stay single for a long time do so because they are selfish? What? Kids need a mature and committed parents, financial support and time. Many people wait until they are 30 so they have a solid financial base, have taken their time to figure out what they want in a spouse and to have some life experience under their belt. The human brain does not stop developing until age 25, yet you want those people to have kids when they have not finished maturing themselves. I would argue you’re selfish for bringing a kid into this world when you’ve barely been adulting yourself.
8. You then say if you wait until you’re 30 to get married, you likely don’t end up having kids. That makes no sense and is an asinine comment. You then say you get set in your ways when you’re 30, again, a blanket statement that makes no sense. People can’t change post 30? What? Have you ever met anyone above the age of 30 who never changed? You think marriage knocks sense into people? It suddenly makes immature people buckle down and responsible? I guess you’ve never seen anyone divorce or you’ve never met absentee parents.
9. The benefits you lost about marriage are laughable, but I didn’t expect much from a 23 year old kid. Yes, it’s easier to go through tough times with a support system, is the sky also blue? Why can’t a loving gf support you as much as a loving wife? You said your kid gives your purpose, and that great. But like I said, having a kid is an all encompassing thing and many young people are self aware to know they are not ready for that yet. Doesn’t make them “lesser” than you. Your final benefit is that your wife shoots down all your dumb ideas. So a twenty year old shoots down another twenty year old’s ideas, sounds like a solid set up. This is also the older woman who dates you when you were a teen right? You sure she isn’t controlling you?
10. You finish off your brilliant thesis by saying if you set aside personal happiness and focus on more “important” things, then all the pitfalls of divorce fall to the wayside. Spoken as someone who has not been married for more than a couple years. You think people divorce because they don’t try hard enough?
11. The sad thing is that it will likely be your kid who suffers the most if your marriage fails. Pride comes before the fall, and your arrogant view on marriage and parenthood doesn’t bode well. Let’s repeat all the red flags we can suss out in your post. Dated an older woman as a teenager, your wife shoots down your ideas, you only hang out with other young, married people or people who married young and therefore live in a echo chamber, believe divorce can be easily avoided and think people who wait until they are richer and maturer to be parents are unwise lol. To bad we can’t get a guaranteed update post from you in a few years. You’re going to realize very fast how demanding being a parent is and how it changes everything.
I'm sorry that you are a man-child. People have been mature enough to raise children at 23 for literally thousands of years. Also, if you aren't mature, having a kid can make you man-up instead of being a little bitch kidult until you're 35.
best comment
people rise to the circumstances they are put in. Having kids by default makes you more mature
Don't care enough to comment on the rest of this, but for point #5, come on man. Anyone who passed high school math knows that the population can continue to grow even if birth rates are declining. Stop being intentionally obtuse.
Also US birth rates can and have been declining significantly while globally that isnt the case. Big swing and miss there
You made a lot of valid points. I glossed over the ages the first time I read it. It sounds like he's still in the honeymoon stage. 2.5 years isn't that long at all. They're still running off that dopamine rush where it's one major event after another. First the engagement, then the wedding planning, then the wedding, then the honeymoon, then the new house, now the new baby. The high of all that can take 2.5 years. Real mundane married life hasn't hit them yet.
The age difference is a bit weird too. She probably caught him when he was a teenager. The fact that she's older, was dating him before he could even drink, and has him feeling like his ideas are dumb is a red flag. Part of her probably views him as a kid.
The life experience and maturity between 21 - 24 is big even though it's only three years. It's like there's a big difference between 12-15 or 15 - 18. However, she's still relatively a kid herself at 24.
I get the impression that she may be leading, controlling, and mothering him a bit. She definitely put the idea that his ideas are dumb in his head and I'm sure some of the ideas a 18 - 21 year old kid came up with were probably dumb to her even though at that age you're supposed to make mistakes.
That shows she doesn't respect his ideas, his leadership, and he's probably not leading the relationship. He might actually be a little whipped. I was whipped at 21. Thank God I didn't get her pregnant and marry her.
There are some red flags. Wish him the best though.
If the roles were reversed (the man is 24, the woman is 21) you probably wouldn't think twice.
Of course I made valid points. But the site skews young and Republican and those types get triggered when I call them out for being awful.
was following this as maybe reasonable until you threw out the "23 year old kid". People who throw around age superiority are often the biggest dicks in my experience.
Ahh yes, 23 years old, three years removed from being a teen, shouldn’t be classified as a kid lol.
My dad had me at around that age and he was the best father out of any of my friends or family. What a ridiculous and stupid statement. Fathers have been minted younger than that since the dawn of time.
Ahh yes, pretending the exceptions make the rules. Sigh this site has gotten so bad lately. Also, why no mention of your mom, was she much older or younger when she had you?
So, we've now crossed into this absurd territory in the West where people are claiming or implying pedophilia or sexual grooming for dating a young adult. Just ridiculous.
He was a teenager when she got her hooks into him. How many teens do you know that have solid dating experience? Lol I’m sure the first woman who showed an interest in him is his soulmate.
This is the best comment. I support wholeheartedly.
Thanks man. The vitriol I receive for just giving an honest opinion is so bizarre to me.
Imagine saying getting married and having kids in your early thirties is a better life move than doing the same in your early twenties and getting a ton of comments calling you out of touch.
If I can save even one kid from making the same mistake OP did, the online hate is worth it.
100+ years ago, 23 would be considered "old" to be having a child. It is our generation that is waiting way, way too long to have children and form families.
You deserve some monkey shit bum
Disagree. Life is better without the stress of kids. I wouldn't want my kid to suffer in this shitty ass, stressful world. Unfortunately, I haven't found anyone who doesn't want kids yet.
Was there ever a better time to have kids? By most measures, the world keeps getting better and better.
I don't know, but maybe because I'm stressed out about life and work all the time, I don't want to have kids go through that too. Life is hard enough for me already.
I'm not married yet but I do have a long term relationship with a woman that I'll likely marry. I agree with your points. My girlfriend is also a professional in a related field so for living expenses, entertainment, vacations, etc. we split the bill... AND I get to have sex with her. I can get how, financially, this makes sense. If I was a single and wanted to have a fun trip, with sex included, I'd have to pick up some rando and likely pay for her things too. Other finance professionals even just go to cheap countries and then pick up escorts so on top of paying for her things, you also have to pay a flat rate to fuck her each time. And I know you fuckers do it because when Litquidity posts about "snorting cocaine off a prostitue's ass in Cartagena with your absolute boys" all of you like his posts and now look how rich he is from selling you that finance bro lifestyle. Hey, I'm not judging, but imagine what all that pussy money could do on your 401k. Now... imagine if you had TWO 401ks! When you retire and find yourself only being able to buy yourself one yacht you'll remember my words when I pull up with BOTH my yachts.
Jokes aside, it is hard. My girlfriend has her cons but sometimes I think I struck gold. She is an extremely conservative woman but she is also non-religious (atheist, like me). How common is that? First, finding yourself a conservative woman is important because for women it is very easy to cheat. If your girl has an intention to cheat all she has to do is take a picture, post it on instagram, and then reply to the guys sending her fire emojis. It is THAT easy. For me, I'd say it is more likely for the S&P500 to go to zero tomorrow than for my girlfriend to cheat. BUT the issues I have with conservative women who are conservative because of their parents/religions is that religion only gets a hold of you for so long. The sluttiest whores I know were all Christians so there was a time when they were religious but then their taste for penis went above their religion. A woman who is conservative by choice is much better. The solution to that, then, is to date atheist or agnostic women but then these non-religious women turn out to to also be very promiscuous and in their case it makes sense because in the absence of morality why would someone not turn to hedonism? This applies double in the case of women who are able to indulge in hedonism so easily as dozens of men are always willing to provide sex, alcohol, drugs, etc.
So, I don't know bros, you do you. I suggest you find yourself a good woman and marry her. If you don't do this then that is when you'll end up like your sucker MD. You know what happened to your MD? Simple. He remained single until his 30s and had very little time to pursue love. Then, one of the many women he used to meet at the club sniffed his money and decided to get him. She gave him dick destroying sex 10 times in a row to the point that he was hooked. Then, when the time was right, she threatened to take away that 10/10 sex if he did not put a ring on it. So he did. And now he is paying for her trips to go fuck other men. So don't be like your MD. Instead of letting women pick you because of your wealth, you go out there and pick a woman for her values.
Or don't. Who gives a fuck. Litquidity ain't that bad.
There's nothing conservative about you at all. It's pretty clear you don't understand why secularism is inherently anti-conservative. A lot of the things I'm sure you rail about as a "conservative" (examples: wokism, marxism, CCP) are actually secular forms of various religions. The level of hedonism displayed in your posting is inherently the same sort of worldly pleasure-seeking/suffering minimization (AKA secularism) that so called "libs" are seeking too (LGBTQ, feminists, etc).
Edit: You are correct that most Christians do not actually exhibit behavior that they theoretically would. Western folks have essentially given it up, and it's pretty clear what the future religion of Europe will be at least (hint: one that still enforces itself). For those in the US, you will have to settle for AI communism.
This is why Islam will take over Europe?
Conservatism can come in many forms. Someone may be conservative as an individual in terms of their outlook on life. Don’t know for sure, but he might mean that his girlfriend has a generally risk-averse outlook on life and so doesn’t give as easily to hedonism as others might. This sounds perfectly reasonable to me but that’s because I have immigrant parents and have moved countries many times myself and immigrants tend to be personally conservative. This shouldn’t be alien to a bunch of finance professionals. People in this profession literally forgo near-term pleasures to earn lots of money.
If you’re talking about political conservatism, I’d point out that secularism and atheism / agnosticism are not the same thing. Secularism is the express tolerance or equal treatment of all religions either by embracing all religions (stance of the Indian Constitution) or by embracing none (as in France). Essentially, as a secular person, you accept all “arguments” about who “God” is. As an atheist / agnostic, you question God’s existence. Holding the latter view isn’t necessarily at odds with being politically right-wing. If anything, it probably frees you up to be a pitiless bigot now that you don’t have to deal with those pesky verses talking about compassion and the brotherhood of man that exist in every holy book. For real life examples, see Douglas Murray, all the founders of Pakistan, most (if not all) far-right politicians in Europe and, increasingly, the new generation of Republicans in the US. Everyone knows Trump is a libertine charlatan but notice how little DeSantis, Hawley and Cotton talk about faith. Contrast that with the fake piety of the Bush era
MashAllah
I got beaten up for saying these points in much stodgier, scientific parlance circa 2013-2014. The data has existed--fits and starts of it--for as long as guys have been simpering for chicks at colleges which are now coed. I can only writhe as the destruction I incurred for bringing these data to the surface before it was cool has made famous dozens of blown out whores and con-inc males who are acting as if it was she/he who discovered this shit. I wasn't gross about it--I was adament that men and women are, for superficial divergences, totally equal--and in fact, women may outperform men in finance and econ anyway. But in those days, the moment a goy raises his eye from the script, you were ruined and fast. to this day I take shit from cucks who are now ebulient in their self-described founding of concepts such as "hYperGeAmY and the RedPiL"....yeah, fucking right.
Now i again am cross-bound. ANd I regret that someone (you can guess what culture they'll be lol)somewhere, in 3 years or fewer, will give hte same politically inflammatory banter did I and get sucked and payed for grifting 'pon my narrow social headstone
this is nice and all but i cant pull
This is the way
This is an interesting post, but I can't help but think that you sound young and naive, and you're going to be one of those men that will be dangerously devastated if it doesn't work out. All the power to you if it works for you. I love to see people get married, start families, and live long, happy lives. I really do. Unfortunately, everyone I've ever met that got married in their twenties didn't make it to 30. They all had their own reasons and stories, but it just didn't work.
I don't know why marriages fail so much these days. It could be social media, technology allowing us to be so independent, selfishness, feminism, easy temptation, the government incentivizing women to divorce, the decline in religion, morals, ethics, duty, etc. Maybe it's a bit of all that and more. I have my own theories, but they're just theories. The bottom line is marriages are failing like never before.
Fight for your family and nip any red flags in the bud. Marriage is a LOOONG marathon, and you are so young. You are not going to be the same people in five years that you are now, so make sure you truly grow together and stay on the same page.
However, this is a bit concerning.
I mean no disrespect for what I'm about to say, but be a man. Lead your family. This statement makes you sound like one of those "happy wife, happy life" losers (again, I mean that in the most respectful way). Just don't be that guy that hides in his man cave, gives his wife the check, and asks her permission for everything. You are the head of your family. Don't put yourself down with that type of language. Your thoughts are not dumb. They may not be perfect, but the moment you start acting like the "dumb" man that needs his wife's approval, you're setting your marriage up for failure. A woman doesn't want to be the man of the house. You can respect her and ask for her input but don't start walking around your home with your head down, looking to your wife as the voice of logical reason. Your wife married a man, so be one - she'll appreciate it. You need to lead, protect, and provide. Your wife doesn't want to be the man of the house for the next 40-50 years.
Other than that, I really wish you the best. This post was a bit refreshing coming from a young man.
My assumption is that by dumb thoughts he is referring to the harebrained thoughts that all men in their 20s have that probably shouldn't go from thoughts to actions e.g. anything that would follow after someone says "hold my beer."
Congrats. Where did you meet?
How much of that "happiness" is contingent upon the "no debt, have a house" part of the deal? You casually mentioned it but that's a big deal. None of the 21 year olds I knew were debt free or even remotely prepared financially for home ownership. The people who most often wait to marry I find do so once they're in a more solid financial position. You're not going to be a present husband or father working 80 hour weeks and being broke, indebted, or pissed off all the time - so people often plan their life stuff around milestones.
For the record, I'm not married and probably will never be - Partly because I don't want kids and partly because I just never met "partner" material - but being single and high income has plenty of perks. My lifestyle is pressure-free. I don't have to compromise on anything - I want it I do it or get it. And I still meet interesting women from time to time, have some fun travel flings, and enjoy variety. But I grew up an only child so am just more accustomed to doing things my way, doing them solo, and switching gears at a moment's notice.
Not trying to compare my life to yours just saying that not every bachelor is in for a life of misery.
Just like not every young married couple is in for the bliss you're experiencing. I'm at the age where more friends are divorced than still together - which is even more depressing, I think. Seeing families break up and assets get lost, and co-parenting and splitting custody and watching your ex move on - that stuff is soul-crushing.
100% agree on the "no debt, have a house." Daddy's money goes a long way OP.
IB hardos who live to serve their slave master, I mean MD, are already hating on you lol.
You mean to tell me there is life outside of work?
Kids are only worth it if you have your mortgage paid off in your 30s, which is not the case for 99.9% of people
Pretty sure most people get married not necessarily when they want to, but rather when they meet the right person. You can say you are just ready and marry someone but you will probably be just shortchanging yourself. I know the whole making relationships work thing is obviously important and there are many trials to overcome, but if you don't have the right person, you will be miserable.
Wish I got married earlier. My dating life was a disaster. Glad I made it out alive and without STDs.
Amen, brother. Preach.
What this guy said.
Lord I've seen what you have done for others...
People should just do whatever works for them. Whether that’s getting married at 22, 32 or 42 doesn’t really matter.
In the US the only people I know getting married in their early twenties are from the Midwest and South. Anecdotally, they live pretty simply lives and are generally content with everything. However, there are a few instances of a few of them going off the rails and in those situations the shock value is high. I’m currently banging a married chick that got married in her early twenties 1-2 years ago.
Her husband is painfully awkward and socially inept so I don’t really feel bad for him given anyone with half a brain would see she’s cheating. She’s openly flirted with me and overtly touched me sexually in front of him and he has no idea. We don’t even work together and she told him that I would take her back from a friends place and we fucked in my car in her driveway. She’s also banging like 4-5 other dudes in addition to me under the guise of networking events and staying late at the office. This dude is so clueless one of these dudes is probably going to knock her up and think it’s his baby.
Yeahhh, sounds like you might wanna get tested....
Never Happened.
Married at 21 as well, going into FT in a month, feel like a million bucks lol thanks for this
Report back at 30 if you’re still married
Exactly.
Yeah exactly.
I think this is a pretty cool post to hear your positive experience. As others have said, do what works for you. It depends on a lot of factors, including (and I would say especially) luck in finding the right girl.
I got married at 24 and am 27 now and am happy we made that decision. My wife is my best friend and we love spending time with each other. It’s worked out great for us, but I’ve seen the lack of luck of 2 friends in the current dating scene (seems to be no fault of their own.. just not great options out there).
Came here expecting a “Getting married young is Paradise” post, disappointed
Getting married young is paradise is true with good financial planning, or you will end up in endless argument about money. Trust me.
Sincerely glad it worked out for you. And I hope it keeps working for you.
But To be fair, you’ve only been married all of TWO years, and it’s worked out SO FAR. Come back to us in 20 and 30 years and tell us how you’re doing.
I know many cases of bad marriages and breakups and the most common thread among these is getting married too young. Most men need until their 30s to know themselves and become established. You went your own way and it’s worked - for you, so far, for all of two years.
Man, take a deep breath! I see you posted below, too. Why so triggered?!
Honest answer - because I think this advice is terrible, and will wreck lives. I'm triggered because it's a recipe for destroying the lives of WSO people, and is quite literally the most dangerous advice anyone has ever given on this site. It's Russian Roulette with 4 bullets in the chambers. So I have to speak out.
For most of us, no one sits men down and gives us life and dating strategy advice. Not real advice anyway. Oh sure, there's "here's how to get a girl" advice out there. But real advice on exploring the dating market, and a larger strategy? Nah, most men just stumble around. And a 23 YO with a wife, kid, and mortgage coming here dropping under-informed advice is very dangerous. As an older member of WSO I see this train wreck coming and feel the need to speak up.
Women have a dating strategy. They know they need to leverage their looks and youth, and the dream of a white-picket-fence-family to lock down a high-value man early. Men need to formulate a dating-life-marriage strategy as well, so you don't just marry the first girl who shows you attention and gives you "love". Young men need to develop themselves and let time mature them into the formed adults and professionals they can be, become before they marry.
We see the results all around us. Half of marriages end in divorce, and of the remaining half, surveys have shown approximately half are staying together for the kids. Those are terrible odds! Can you imagine putting a revolver to your temple and pulling the trigger, when 4 or 5 of the 6 chambers have live rounds? And in US, divorce is a meat grinder for men. If the marriage does not work, you absolutely WILL lose access to your kids and half your assets. Losing your kids is like a death sentence to a parent.
Want real-life cases? I've too many.
My high-school buddy is a high-value man. Solid high-paying career in finance, 6-3, former college athlete, keeps in shape, top univeristy pedigree. Tall, dark, handsome, and paid. Every girl wanted him, and he hooked up a lot in college and his early 20s. Then he met a girl, got married early, had kids, bought a house. So far so good right? Trad-con paradise. Wife's career was low-paying, but he accepted because "love". He provided the income. Wife gets frustrated with her lack of career progression. Then my buddy got an opportunity of a lifetime to move overseas (which has been his life's dream). The offer was for a high-paying job, lifestyle would have been great, kids in private schools, live-in nanny, company rents a huge apartment for them. Wife wouldn't move. She wants to stay in the US near her parents. She's unemployed, but he can't pursue his career, even when a dream job falls in his lap. He gets pissy, she claims he is "emotionally unavailable", and she cheats. He catches her, they went to counseling. He's committed to making this work. She cheats again, my buddy caught her again. He filed for divorce. Now the government man-decimation machine begins. Women get custody almost always. In their 'shared custudy' this means daddy gets to see the kids 2 weekends a month, and mommy gets them all the rest of the time. He is devastated. They split assets. He had the upper hand in negotiations because she's the serial cheater, but he still lost a bunch of assets - cars, houses, savings. And remember, she didn't contribute to buying those assets because she's unemployed. Because "love".
Again, think of the stats. Half of marriages end in divorce, half of the remaining marriages are just in it for the kids, and if a divorce happens, men are going to get torm apart by the legal system. Just massacred.
This is why I'm triggered. I don't want to see bros on this site get their lives torn apart by making uninformed decisons, marrying early, and ruining their lives, and the lives of their families. Women also want to marry a mature fully-developed guy who is making an informed decision, based on experience. If women are smart they should not want a guy who is in their early 20s who hasn't got himself fully developed or figured out, and who hasn't got his sh* together. No one enters into marriage expecting it will end, but too few fully do the multi-year process of figuring out what it takes to marry wisely and keep a marriage together before they jump in.
So yeah, I am triggered by the advice of a 23-y.o. who is telling all of WSO marrying early is paradse. Why the hell aren't you NOT triggered?
Imagine getting married before your brain is even fully developed.
What in the flyover state is this shit
Listen, I'm married, have been for longer than OP, I have a kid and one on the way. My wife is my best friend in all the ways OP laid out and more. But I cannot imagine doing this shit 10 years ago. Guys, spare yourself the fucking judgement from someone who thinks an extra marg at chilis is a big night out and, like, Kansas City Power & Light is the height of fun. Fuck the bible thumpers whining about birthrates - enjoy your life and do what you want to do, don't listen to some guy coping on WSO instead of deleting beers with the boys (brings a tear to my eye just thinking about it) .
As someone who is happily married...no one who is happily married and enjoying their life sits down for an hour plus to write this shit lmao.
This soo much. Live life on your terms
Cope lmao
Didn’t know Ned Flanders was on WSO
I used to think like you. Changed my mind recently because there are things I want to work on in my early 20s and the financial and time costs of a marriage would take away from it. I hope to get married when I am well established.
I used to worry about this too. But then you realize that people are living a lot longer. This might balance out the population, so maybe there's nothing to worry about.
Because of this post I just got married today and then got Ligma
boring life bro. you missed out on having fun, banging chicks, traveling. now you'll just be working long hours into your 40s to pay for your kid's education, healthcare, baby sitters, food, clothes. and there is no guarantee that she'll even like you. I've met plenty of blue haired feminists who hate their dad, bang like a hundred dudes a year, have a gender studies graduate degree that their dad paid for and no job, whereas their dad did everything for them and spent like $1M.
glad to hear its going well for you.
I met my wife at 26 and married her at 29. I feel by 26 I was a pretty full-fledged adult and had a good idea who i was as a person. As mature I was in my early 20's, I'm not sure I was mature enough to commit to a woman long-term them.
We had our first kid at 33ish. Again, we feel blessed to have a child at this stage of life with the benefit of career establishment, a decent net worth and some self-awareness (therapy) to help us be good parents. I'd like to think 33 year old me is a way better dad than 26 year old me, would b.
0% chance I was mature enough to get married at that age. Most guys aren’t, are you serious right now with this Alabama crap?
I think anyone who has a strong marriage wouldn't have minded getting married earlier than they did. Particularly if the couple was 35+ when they got married and don't have a long window to start having kids.
Seriously stupid advice.
Don't you mean "Getting married young is paradise"?
Getting married when you meet the person you want to spend the rest of your life with is the best. If that happens when you're young, more power to you.
Look, there's a checklist every guy in his right mind must abide by before getting married. If even ONE of the items is not met, the only thing you should think about kissing is your marriage dreams goodbye. Here goes:
TLDR, the prerequisites to marriage are: 13 passive income streams, 4 investment properties, abundant amount of highly-liquid assets, 10k shares of INTC and F, and 0DTE NVDA calls. Once you get to this level you'll be ready for marriage. The average age of achieving this is 24, so OP's mention of being 21 is well within a standard deviation or two of the average. Good luck, lads!
Not sure who is throwing monkey poop, this is funny
Everyone here shitting on you and trying to "optimize" marriage like they do for breaking into MF PE lol, it's actually hilarious.
Just came to say man, awesome that you found what works for you and makes you happy. Have both in my circles, those that thrived getting married plus popping kids early and those living their best single life.
Nah, I don’t want to feel like I’m in my 40s stuck with a wife and kid(s) when I’m in my 20s with enough money to explore the world and have fun. To each their own but I think your view is quite old fashioned
On the plus side, if you finish having kids by the time you're 27 you'll be 49 when they're done with college.
Idk about you, but I doubt I'm gonna want to get blacked out or party for a week straight in Cancun when I'm 49
So what? You'll be quite a different person in your late 40s compared to your 20s. Kids can wait a few years if you ask me
Sir, this is a Wendy's.
OP is admittedly giving advice based on his anecdotal experience, poor data points (population shrinking despite the fact that it is objectively continuing to rise globally, and in the US) but what is amazing to me is how many people personally attack him in the comments. People wouldn't be so offended / triggered if they weren't so worried about their own choices. A handful of commenters respond objectively and provide respectful responses, but the lion's share sound like they are written by angry school children who are trying to justify why they are single in their 30s. FYIW, I am not in married so I have no loyalty to OP but it is wild how triggered his post made a bunch of folks who likely suck at dating.
I'm in the same boat as you, don't really have a dog in this fight. As with anything in life, there are pros and cons to everything.
Happy for the OP, but just seems low class to brag about how great his love/married life is. I mean completely unsolicited and on a finance forum! Haha. Why jinx a good thing that's deeply personal and no one else's business?
Also, no discussion about pros or cons, seems like the OP just feels like he's superior to everyone who isn't married or didn’t marry young.
Oh yeah, and he's only 21...he's got a long way to go. I think this goes to show his true maturity (or lack thereof), inexperience, naïveté, hubris, etc. People (including spouses) change, kids don't turn out how you want them to, economy goes boom and bust and many more curveballs life can throw at you. Society itself has changed immensely in just the past decade, for better or worse, hence why marriage stats are radically different from older generations.
Good luck to all, you will surely need it.
Completely agree with all of your points, they are well put and well taken. I think if you put yourself in OPs shoes, his intentions are good. I think hes trying to educate (not commenting on whether A. hes correct or ignorant, and B. he has any right to do so) the WSO population on a ways to seek increased fulfillment. This is a forum full of lonely people who maybe realize below average or average levels of happiness. I feel, and this is just my guess, that OP is trying to share what has worked for him and take an anecdotal data point and use it to make the blanket statement that starting a family in your 20s will help you increase your level of satisfaction and inherent feelings of "having a purpose". Again, I am not by any means saying I agree with the claim or think it is correct to reach the conclusion based on 1 / a few data points (allegedly his friends are all happy too), but nevertheless it is possible the intentions are good.
However, even if you do assume good intentions, I completely agree that the entire post reeks of condescension, and I feel like someone years younger than me is trying to patronizingly educate me.
Additionally, as others have correctly stated, OP is objectively in the honeymoon phase of his marriage and it has yet to really stand any test of time.
However, the weirdest thing is that nowhere in his post does he suggest long-term dating as an alternative. Like, if Ive been with my SO for 3+ years, does that mean I am doing everything correctly or failing because I am neither A. married, nor B. having children.
The child in OP comes out in this post, and it is written with the energy of someone who just had a "profound" shower thought and then popped an addy and scribbled down 2 pages on the train to work. Im not trying to disparage OP by saying that, as some of my posts on WSO have the same energy and are purely based on a few anecdotal data points. Then again, rarely am I trying to educate others on how they ought to live in a manner that assumes what works for me applies for the broader population.
Your life sounds like my hell. All power to you and all the best.
I'm not here to brag but here's a long post about why my life is so great.
Projecting.. Coping.. lots of words
If more people were concerned with family and less with money, the world would be a much better place.
Skimmed though it, didn’t read everything but definitely agree that the developing trend is not healthy for society at large. Congrats and best wishes
Different folks different strokes
False. Extremely False. Being a single and rich dude is the best. There really is no better version of life. Why tie yourself down?
Lol, I bet you're overwhelmed with the selection of ladies you can pull.
Lol idk if you’re joking but yes I have been overwhelmed 😆. NYC is literally easy mode for guys as long as you are semi-attractive and make 6 figs+.
I think later on it’s a great thing to find “the one” and share the rest of your life with that person, but I see little point in dating rn.
So, I actually just got married less than 2 weeks ago and I'm 23. But this post has so many weird takes. It's a no for me.
On the contrary, you probably grow the most in your 20s than any other decade. Your entire life until 22, assuming you went to college, has been pretty structured. You've been told from parents, friends, family, etc. who you are, what you want to do, what success looks like, etc. When you finally are on your own (hopefully) you challenge a lot of existing notions, and likely come away by your late 20s with completely different perspectives on life.
While I think the gist of your advice is in the right place. Almost everyone I know, myself included, would be miserable today if they married their college significant other.
Also, to be blunt, most men dont know how to handle relationships. They dont understand women, dating dynamics, how to gain and give respect, etc. Going one and done with your dating life will set you up for a world of hurt in many cases (hence, higher divorce rates for getting married younger). You basically just married the first woman interested in you, instead of understanding what you really want and value beyond that mutual attraction. Having a pretty extensive dating history gives you more understanding about who you are, what you want, what you can tolerate - and what you cant, when it comes to relationships.
I do believe declining birth rates is an issue, and getting fulfillment from career over family is a big mistake. That city life has a shelf life, and eventually you need to try to settle down if you care about having a family at all and shouldnt wait until 35 to do that. But this is a very grass is greener post and there is plenty of evidence that refutes your point, but also some that supports it. whatever journey an individual goes on it's important they prioritize self reflection and can ask themselves the difficult questions of what they want in life and what they are willing to give up
Also lol at the mr. middle class home flex. who gives a shit
Always good to see different perspectives but always know that you should focus on what works for you and be honest with yourself. I am 37 and not marry. My parents had me at 18 and it was a challenge for them so I wanted to be financially stable and be sure that I wanted kids and family. Finally I can say i do and luckily as a guy there is less of time pressure. Personally I truly enjoyed casual dating in my 20's and 30s and think it will made me a better future husband than if I had not had all those experiences.
But one thing my parents were awesome and even though we struggle financially i had a great and happy childhood so wouldn't let financial success be the sole reason to put off kids.
My parents struggled financially when we grew up. It was hell on earth for them, I don’t recommend it.
Interesting that this is getting so much attention.
Reality is you are really off here. Having a lifelong partner should be the most diligenced decision you ever make. You have been married for less time than I have had relationships. When I was 23 I ended a 5 year relationship. If we had rushed and got married (which we thought we would) I would have made a terrible decision. Sure, I would have been more responsible from 23-26, maybe had kids, and guess what probably already well on my way to divorce at 30-35 ruining those kids sense of establishment and family structure.
Instead I spent 3 years single having 1) a ton of fun which is what our short existence should be about 2) working hard in IB and saving up cash and 3) dating a variety of women to understand what I really want from a partner.
Now I’m engaged at 29 and couldn’t be happier. I found a perfect lifetime partner, we both want to have 2-3 kids and with modern healthcare and life expectancies no one should flinch at this being a ripe age for children.
I’m sure you will disagree, but this post comes off like you have doubts about your early life decisions which are now permanent for 60+ years, 3x as long as you’ve even existed. Why else would you get on an IB forum and post this if you were coping with your own view of your life. Any moron could tell you that at best every situation is different so advice like “get married early” is dogshit.
The only answer is get married when you, as an individual, are ready to. Any other advice is coping and virtue signaling because of some personal insecurity or concern on what could have been.
This is literally verbatim what I said, yet somehow I got a million hate messages lol.
Who asked?
OP is such a loser than he went and MS'd everyone who told him to shove off. Really sad but that's what you do when you've been groomed since your teen years by an older woman and get tied down before experiencing a fundamental part of of life in your 20s
The funny this is if the OP was so happy and secure in his decision, he wouldn't have made this post.
I don't see the points of having kids. Yes they look like you and inherit some of your features, but they'll never truly understand you or love you. They're just another stranger who relies on you for food and clothes. They'll betray you the moment you fail to provide high quality amenities. Sometimes they don’t even share the same personality or values as you. People become servants the moment their kids are born. Their life begins to revolve around their kids, and they become exhausted. It’s a self-destructing mechanism induced by hormone. A trap.
Lol. Go outside for a bit. Take a break from the internet. Of course kids aren't for everyone, and of course some parent/child situations go south, but this is such a dark and inaccurate sweeping world view to the point that deep down as you wrote it out I think you probably knew that.
that's why you dont make your kids your entire personality or world. So many parents do this thinking their kids give a shit about the type of schooling they go to, or how nice their stuff is, or the size of their bedroom. They really dont. Teach them to be independent from a young age instead of literally shaking your entire world for them on things that likely dont produce different outcomes and things they wont even be grateful for.
Blue collar parents get this.
[ ]
My life 180’d when I was 24 and I’m just becoming a man now at 27-28.
Couldn’t imagine being locked in at 21, but to each their own. I was a head case though.
You seem to obviously be on the end of the spectrum that really values things that come with family and married life. Probably so much so, that it's tough for you to believe that so many people exist on the other end of the spectrum. Everyone is different (which is good, if we were all similar the world would be boring).
I actually have a lot of envy of people like you. I really think the happiest people I see are people like you that just love family life, being married, the simple things and found a partner young and are on cloud 9. How amazing it would be to be that type of person, life would have a lot less BS to worry about and spend time/energy on. The reality is, a lot people aren't like you. Many people value the other end of the spectrum, have certain qualities that make it so they don't enjoy being tied to a partner so heavily, aren't excited about having kids, etc. Most people are in the middle of the spectrum and the decision isn't so clean cut. As much as I wish I shared your values, I don't and every time I've been in a relationship, I've constantly found myself less happy than when I was single even though my gf's were amazing people with great qualities and we got along well and rarely fought. I just love being on my own and not having to worry about how many decisions impact someone else (partner, child, etc.). Call me selfish - so be it, it's true and there's nothing I can do about my personality trait. I love me and I'm a great person and never mistreat other people, which makes me unhappy to be in a relationship because there are things I want to do but I don't because of how it would negatively impact my significant other. I'm in my early 30's, and thought that would go away as I got older, but it just hasn't and I think a lot of people can relate. I do think one day I'll settle enough to find myself happier in a relationship than by myself, but I really have 0 fear of spending my entire life single. I know tons of people that are the opposite - they have great lives but sit there and wallow in sadness that they don't have anyone to share it with. Those are people I simply can't understand since I sit on a different end of a spectrum, but I'm cognizant that they exist and that a blanket advice can't apply to everyone.
Final thing - we change so damn much in our early/mid 20's. I have always been a mature/responsible person and could have easily raised a child at a young age, but the point is that the person I thought I was at 23 (who I was 100% was a full grown adult at the time) is so far from the person I turned out to become once I went through years of adult experiences. The person I would have thought is the perfect match at 23 would now be someone that I probably wouldn't even take on a second date. Sure, it's possible to grow with someone as you grow. That's a huge risk and probably fails more than it succeeds at that age.
OP fwiw thanks for posting this — I’m really happy to hear your marriage is going well. I always love reading new perspectives like these.
Did OP even respond after that long ass post?
Figured I had talked enough and let y’all have the floor.
I think that 21 is very young for the majority of people. Heck I didn’t start actually dating people until I was 19/20. I needed that time to learn what I liked and didn’t like. That being said I got into a long term relationship at 21 and two years later am very happy.
Does your wife have a career? I am a 23 year old woman, and having a baby right now would ruin my career trajectory. I just graduated from college! I think in general having a kid at a young age will make you poorer. This would be the case for me as well as all of my female friends. Maybe your group has family money or your idea of wealth is not aligned with my own.
A lot of bf’s friends are getting married this coming year. They will be 25/26, which is still pretty young for a lot of people.
OP here. We don’t come from money. We both work and have made “building the nest” the priority with our money for the last few years. We also live in a MCOL area and her work has an amazing maternity leave policy. Perks of her not working in IB like me lol.
Having kids is not a great financial or career decision. It’s more of a life and fulfillment decision and it’s what we want to do. Sure I encourage most people to try and do the same, but I respect individual feelings and situations. Plenty of room for nuance and different life paths.
That sounds amazing and I am frankly quite jealous. Isn’t it so sad that we women have to worry about our job’s maternity leave policy to plan major life decisions? OP, I wish you well and I hope the delivery goes smoothly!
In my early 20s, I found myself in a relationship with a wonderful girl. She was beautiful, someone I had always fantasized about, and we shared great chemistry. We got along well with each others' families, and everything seemed perfect for taking the next step: getting married. It was the obvious choice, right?
I broke up with her.
I made the choice not to settle. To continue to pursue my own dreams and continue on my journey of personal growth. I decided that life wasn't just about avoiding loss, but about actively seeking victories. About going out in the world and crafting the life that I truly desire.
I ventured abroad and embraced new experiences that broadened my horizons. My personality changed, gradually shifting to a representation of my true self and away from some vague idea of what people or society expect me to be. I discovered the thrill of pursuing my passions and achieving my goals. I found a cool job that let me travel around the world, made money. Along the way, I had the opportunity to meet amazing people, including women who captivated me on different levels. And I don't just mean I met some new women, I literally fucked new women who were hotter and more fun than that girl I had been dating in my early 20s on a weekly basis. I still do.
I thought I was winning in my early 20s, but I realized I was playing in the little leagues. If I ever decide to get married, I'm going to have some pretty fucking good reasons for doing so.
Don't settle.
This is not the flex that you think it is. There's nothing wrong with people that desire a traditional life and want to build a family legacy. Imagine being on your death bed and all you have to show for your life is money and the women that you slept with instead of a beautiful family and children that could make a difference in the world. I know I sound ridiculously red-pilled but damn this is just sad. Maybe you thought she would divorce you for someone better one day so you decided to duck out first. This pattern is all too common in men that are terribly insecure and therefore choose to actively avoid commitment.
It's not a flex. The point is not that "money and women" is somehow a better life choice, but that that if you choose to marry and build a family, it should be from a place where you had the "money and women" but matured into wanting to build a family. Far too often people get married and start a family from a place of fear, a fear of missing the train--missing their chance and ending up lonely, loveless, and so on--and then try to rationalize that they never wanted "money and women" to begin with.
Anyone who remembers me from my Drumpfy days knows...
First of all this is B/S… and this is coming from a woman. Whoever wrote this hasn’t been out of the US… stop using Africa as a reference to poverty… there’s kids starving in the US. I can name at least 5 places in the US where kids don’t have food… and the hunting comments? Do you think this is Tarzan? Urggghh so ignorant!
Agree on 2 points that you made - 1. Your thinking changes when you have a family who depends on you. 2. As you grow up together, you share many of your joys and sorrows together, potentially building a stronger bond.
But having said that it's better to hold off marrying until both of you are comfortable living with each other. After 7-8 years of married life, life will start to suck and that's when stupidity strikes. Make sure to get past that stage if you want to live together.
As a man, when you are married long enough and you are lucky, you will wake up to a choice, to love your wife despite her many faults. A successful marriage is where you choose the same over and over.
Bro you just have mommy issues and your girlfriend fulfills that for you. Jokes aside I do not think marriage is a good idea for most dudes under 25. Your girlfriend getting married at 24 is still alright though ideally it would be 26-27
very cool
There is something special about being able to be young and reckless with someone you love. You can go on grand adventures, throw caution to the wind, and avoid all of the bad Tinder dates that your friends are enduring. You still get to do all of the wild stuff that your single or unmarried friends are doing, but you also get to go home with someone you love guaranteed. If that hangover comes around on a Saturday morning, then you’ve got some companionship to help along the way. These are the moments that turn into colorful memories that your kids and grandkids will love hearing about along the way.
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