US cities Ranking (compensation based)
I want to know which are the best and the worst cities to live.
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Best value cities that have major IB stuff prolly Houston & Charlotte.
Would probably add Atlanta to that list too. Houston is pretty energy and power focused. Atlanta and Charlotte have a lot of options in terms of product/coverage at banks.
what's the tech IB scene in Charlotte?
Does Atlanta have many job opportunities in finance?
Add Tampa, great lifestyle and weather plus low cost of living
tampa's rent is insane rn lol
I feel like Cleveland (KeyBank) beats every other city in terms of salary/COL
yea but it's fucking Cleveland
Would also add Richmond to this list
What banks have a good presence in Richmond?
Do you know if they are better than Miami, Boston, DC or even Chicago in terms of pay?
All of these shops pay the same as their NYC counterparts besides Key which pays like 5 or 10k less in base for Cleveland than NY. So yes, in Richmond, Atlanta, Houston, Charlotte, or Tampa, you can make 200k+ as an An1.
Do you know if London compensation is better than in these cities?
Lnd compensation is getting finer.
It's similar comp but taxed at a higher rate I think
London is the worst of the worst:
- Lower base salaries and bonuses
- London is as expensive as NYC
- Higher tax rates
- Weakening currencies (either the GBP or the Euro are wet paper compared to the Dollar right now)
- Ugliest chicks in the world (overweight girls with fake tan and a ton of makeup)
- Full of British and Europeans
You can deduct $50K from IB Houston bc weather decreases the value so much. I’ve heard it called Asston!
Any M&A groups in CLT?
WF M&A
BofA has a small regional coverage group that does some M&A
Houston is the most useless and poorly planned city among the big ones in the country. Nothing to do; terrible weather; traffic; built worse than LA; far from everything except Mexico.
This is the right answer. +SB. As soon as someone says, "Houston is a great city" I know that person has never actually spent time in Houston. All of the above is accurate and add a terrible crime/gang problem too.
Richmond, VA. Making 350K+ there, I'd imagine even people who like to splurge would have no problem saving a good chunk of their comp given the COL.
how much are we talking about?
Salaries within the financial industry in Switzerland are a joke compared to the US, especially factoring in COL. Salaries are basically in line with non-financial industries. All employers know thay there is little competition for workforce in this small country, hence no reason to pay big bucks. Add on top that lots of people globally would like to live here, and you get high supply of workforce for very few jobs.
Especially among younger folks it is not uncommon to leave Switzerland at least temporarily in order to make big money in US or even London.
Chicago comp matches NY for IB, PE, and Consulting, but COL is meaningfully less
Chicago currently probably has one of the best balances between finance opportunities and COL given that most BBs and some EBs have presence, but admittedly, it's on the decline and it's losing out to Dallas/Austin
What do you mean it's on the decline?
Chicago is absolutely not on the decline
Long term, Austin/Dallas are on a much worse trajectory for IB, PE, and consulting given the concentration firms there have on oil and gas
Lmao Chicago is not declining and net comp slaps compared to NY / SF / LA.
Source: Chicago resident since 2007
Reputable institutional advisory shops in Dallas: JPM C&R, HL. End of list.
Reputable institutional advisory shops in Austin: Westlake Securities?
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He’s talking about MD level comp
NYC salary = $2MM/year
Extra taxes = ($600,000)
Extra housing costs = ($15,000*12=$180,000)
NYC salary adjusted for Cleveland COL
= $2MM-$600,000-$180,000=$1,220,000
Cleveland salary =$1MM
Net NYC over Cleveland = $1,220,000-$1,000,00 = $220,000
The discount in Cleveland isn’t 30%, it’s at least 50% cheaper if not more. For context this building https://www.terminaltower.com is only a few blocks from Key and you can get a personal, newly renovated studio in an old luxury building at $1000/month. Amenities include a fully furnished gym. So not only is rent much cheaper, but the quality of what you can get is far better than what an analyst can get. Even on base salary you can pretty much do whatever you want whenever you want in CLE.
I’m not trying to shill for Cleveland or other MCOL cities I just want to point out that there is a drastic difference in “base comforts” (food, housing, gym, etc) that one can afford in CLE compared to NYC at the junior levels and while you’re correct that NYC offers higher upside that assumes one will get all the promotions, not get pushed out and not decide to move to a cushier role such as corp dev or corp strat a few years down the line. Getting to $2MM isn’t easy and requires a lot of variables to fall into place including analysts living in a shoebox (relative to places like CLE) with 0 amenities, unable to have their own car and living off of seamless just to have all their meals covered due to HCOL + student loan payments all while working 80+ hours a week. Compare that to CLE where a junior can live in a nice comfortable studio, order all the nutritious food they need to make it through the hours, make a big dent in their student loan payments and have a convenient gym in the same building all within a few minutes drive from work with no financial stress. For people who don’t mind a slower pace in life and aren’t trying to optimize their future comp to the dollar there’s a tangible reason why they would choose to work in a place like CLE for at least the first few years before they can really afford NYC (and have all loans paid off) even if the Key name means coming in at a less prestigious firm in NYC when they do make it in. Some may even choose to stay in CLE as COL factors into homes, kids school, etc. and the arts/culture/nightlife angle is largely irrelevant for families living in suburbs.
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Isn't Cleveland's dating pool shit if you're a guy (not sure about girls)
But the COL has to cap at some point right? Is not like as an MD in Cleveland your COL is 1M and in NYC your COL will move to 2M. You only need a set amount of stuff for yourself and your family.
Taxes and housing are the only two things that factor into COL? Guess so if you grow your own food in a hydroponics chamber or something. And send your kids to public school. Bike the 2+ hours of commute you have when you finally upgrade from the 350 sq. ft. studio. Brew your own alcohol and never actually go out (grow your own weed with that hydroponics equipment?). Ration your utilities in a cost-adjusted manner. Go to Canada for free healthcare after a homeless guy tries to kill you in the subway for the 43rd time. Etc.
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Dallas
So, trying to summarize all the data that have been posted above and answering my original question I think that the Ranking should be something like that (Based on long term compensation, CoL, taxes and ONLY ON COMMENTS):
1. NY/SF/LA
2. Chi/Boston/DC
3. Houst/Dallas
4. Charlotte/Atlanta
5. Richmond/Tampa
6. Cleveland
7..HK/Shenzhen/Singapore
8. London
9. Switzerland
(Places like Dubai, Frankfurt, Paris, Milano, Amsterdam, Sydney, Philadelphia left. Would appreciate any info about them)
Do you think this is accurate enough?
Houston COL is basically the same as Dallas, but Houst is a shithole by comparison
I've been to both and they're more similar then either cities want to admit. If you're from Houston you hate Dallas and think Houston's better and if you're from Dallas you hate Houston and think Dallas is better. Both are massive urban sprawl metros.
Why?
Where would austin, nashville, miami rank?
Boston T4 with richmond is such a bad take
DC is tier 6 that place is a dump
NY/SF/LA definitely don't belong at #1 if you're taking CoL and taxes into consideration, especially when comp is relatively the same regardless of city in our industry. By no means am I saying we should look it this as best bang for your buck because then a shithole like Cleveland would be at the top but looking at it holistically NY/SF/LA are #3 at best.
DC based banks or MM branches in the DC metro tend to pay the same as NYC. Though the cost of living and taxes are still high it's still better than NYC. You can get a ~500-600 SF studio or one bedroom in a luxury apartment building for like $2,500 versus $3,200 for the equivalent in NY.
But at least you still get a big city experience, if you're into that, which I feel that places like Charlotte & Atlanta somewhat lack.
But DC culture is based around politics 24/7 which can be draining for some.
As regards networking and exit ops, do you think that top-tier cities provide an exponentially better range of possibilities than other places mentioned here? I think this is relevant because of the improvent that your comp would experiment.
What about the difficulties of making intern movements from an office located in one place to another? Is it possible to go from Houston to NY for example?
The Emirates would likely be at the very top here, depending on a few unique factors to the country (passport, background, package etc). Generally speaking, if you’ve a “good” passport and let’s call it “English speaking first world” banking experience, you’ll make NY-comparable money (maybe at a little discount to Street on the bonus though), tax free.
The real money, however is in the expat packages thrown in on top, where the free housing, car and general allowances come into play. These deals are real but are becoming increasingly hard to come by.
Not tax free if you are still a US citizen, and denouncing my citizenship is something I would never do
I am very curious about this. How can I send you a PM?
UAE (Dubai, Abu Dhabi) hands down. NY pay (slight discount) with 0% tax, dollar peg, reasonable CoL (significantly lower than NY/SF/LON etc.), and thriving IB scene.
Minneapolis has Piper Lazard hw and HL - all pay street or higher
Yep - came here to say this. Even better COL / value than Chicago (obviously not as big of a city). You legit live like a king there for what your comp is.
Do you work in Chicago? I'm trying to get some insight into the banking scene, could you pm?
Little Rock, Arkansas
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