Northwestern vs Duke vs Columbia GS
I'm an international student blessed with three choices, but I'm having a hard time choosing between them.
Duke and NU cost the same with Columbia GS being slightly pricer
Northwestern (+)
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slightly better offerings for my intended majors (cs + math/econ/philosophy). they also offer a special 4-year BA/MS CS track which I'm quite inclined toward.
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way better location. I personally like Northwestern's campus way more—the Lakefill and mix of gothic and modern architecture seems much more mesmerizing. Chicago>>>Durham any day (though it's not like NU students go to Chicago every day, but Evanston is pretty sweet too).
Northwestern (-)
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Chicago is FREEZING
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slightly less prestigious? Duke is more well-known (not necessarily more well-regarded for those in the know). it seems both Duke and Northwestern are neck-neck peer schools, though.
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***biggest tangible con: NU seems to be a target for Chicago IB only, semi for NYC IB at best (though I've heard conflicting advice from alumni that things are changing + more NU grads going to Chicago may be self-selecting since more NU grads are from the midwest + some have told me that as long as you put in extra effort any difference between NU and Duke for NYC IB recruiting can be overcome). For MBB, Northwestern and Duke are indistinguishable.
Duke (+)
- better weather + better NYC IB recruiting + better marginal prestige than NU
Duke (-)
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slightly worse for my intended majors (though tbf it's not like Northwestern is Berkeley or CMU for CS lol) + I just personally like NU more (in terms of culture and campus and location, the vibes just seem better and it's a personal preference thing I guess?? Not sure if it's foolish to put this over pragmatic NYC IB recruiting benefits)
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also I'm not 100% set on IB just yet. used to be an econ superstar in high school so naturally finance is a good option (high pay + solid career launchpad) but it seems more monkey work and pure grind than MBB, and I personally prefer more analytical and strategy work. now I'm becoming more interested in CS and Philosophy specifically, and I'm very inclined toward studying deeper into AI, maybe I'll become a tech consultant or smt, who knows?
Columbia GS (+)
- Columbia seems to have the best OCR out of the three for NYC IB + Ivy league tag.
Columbia GS (-)
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slightly pricer than Duke and NU, but perhaps opportunities in NYC may outweigh it.
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seems to be a stigma around GS students, and I've read many articles about GS students complaints and implicit mistreatment. GSers not being seen in the same light as CC/SEAS kids. not sure if stomaching the GS bias is worth it especially since I've gotten into both Duke and Northwestern's normal undergrad programs.
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weird housing dynamic. unlike CC/SEAS, GSers have to find off-campus housing and certain things like checking into dorms for CC/SEAS are more troublesome, further compounding that feeling of isolation for GSers.
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I'm only a year older than the regular college folk (took one gap year), so I may not fit in with the regular GS crowd which tends to be way older. For some reason when I applied the admin basically said I could only apply for GS because I was now considered 'non-traditional'.
Thank you!
Any of the US schools I’d you want to work in the USA
Some have told me that between these 3 choices, fit matters most above all since they're peer schools (the same prestige tier below HYPSMW) and the individual matters far more. Any difference between the 3 can be overcome through hard work. In that case, I do have a preference toward's Northwestern's offerings.
Do you think this is wise advice?
All are Fantastic Schools. I personally go to one of them and I think for IBD / PE Duke & Columbia are clearly superior. All are probably on Par for consulting.
Thank you! Do you think Columbia GS's specific social cons should be taken into account? Some say Columbia GS is not CC/SEAS, but then again the difference may be overblown. Others say Columbia is Columbia at the end of the day.
If you do get IB, or don't get IB, it likely won't be between the specifics of the school's here - Honestly the same imo
Some have told me that between these 3 choices, fit matters most above all since they're peer schools (the same prestige tier below HYPSMW) and the individual matters far more. Any difference between the 3 can be overcome through hard work. In that case, I do have a preference toward's Northwestern's offerings. Do you think this is wise advice?
Yeah man, College is more than just getting that junior year internship lol - Northwestern is a great school, and I can count a few cs + math majors who went to the top shops in Chicago and are now in some pretty coveted buyside roles if that's of interest tot you. NYC is not out of reach at all, and you can always land the top seats in Chicago (Moelis, Greenhill, Lazard) that have no trouble placing UMM (Even MF, albeit class sizes are so small in Chicago that you won't see that many) across the country.
Before anything, I think you should absolutely pick school based on fit, how the school culture feels to you as well as how your academic goals will be met by each school.
I went to Duke and love it. It was absolutely the school for me and that's mostly how I thought about it. I'll say that the quality of the weather is overstated (very nice but only about 5 degrees warmer than US Northeast on typical day) and that the quality of Durham is understated (much better than what people say, especially in last 2-3 years)). Also, even though CS is Duke's most popular major, it's definitely not a CS school. The school has an outstanding Math and Engineering program (ranked #3 in Biomedical Engineering, for example), and was ranked #1 in Econ for undergrads when I was there.
Admittedly, Duke and Columbia both will likely have better NYC IB recruiting than Northwestern, but I don't think that means you should discount NU either.
Lastly (restating from above): Pick based on fit and programs. Please don't pick based on weather or IB recruiting.
Thank you for your insight! I really love Duke too, and it's an option I'm really having a hard time saying no to (Duke basketball is super infectious!). For some reason, I'm leaning toward Northwestern because the location is quite hard to beat (Lakeside views + easy access to Chicago). As an intl student exploring Chicago over 4 years just seems much more appealing than being in Durham (however bustling it is). Student life at both NU and Duke are comparable but NU's body seems slightly more diverse (it draws music and theatre kids a lot too), but this point hardly moves the needle. Academically, NU's quarter allows slightly more flexibility than Duke and NU's CS offerings are a bit cooler too (4 year MS programs, interdisciplinary lab work etc.). Overall, both NU and Duke are REALLY neck-to-neck, but NU's offerings seem to edge out slightly.
I'm a bit hesitant to take up Columbia GS because of the stigma + NYC comes at an extra cost without too much benefit + NYC may be overwhelming in college, more of a place to explore as a salaryman.
Here's the kicker: NU seems to have a noticeable disadvantage when it comes to NYC IB. In your experience how heavy should I weigh this? Is this something that is negligible with harder networking? Especially since I'm an international student, I may have less bargaining power (though Chicago IB is easier to get from Northwestern). At this stage, I'm not even sure if I want NYC vs Chicago? It just seems like NYC is the place to be when you're in your 20s. Moreover, I'm also not incredibly sure if I want to do IB? For MBB, both NU and Duke are the same, if I'm not mistaken. My ultimate goal is to land NYC PE since it's the perfect intersection of my goals (intellectually stimulating + high pay rather than the grindfest that is IB) and I've also heard that MBB may be better for landing PE because its strategic thinking skills are more transferable + less from MBB want PE so it's easier to stand out.
In short: my gut is telling me Northwestern because of fit, but, then again, I'm still only a youngin with no industry experience, and I'm not too sure how much of a disadvantage I'll be by taking Northwestern (negligible or noticeable) if I want to be in NYC. What do you advise?
Private equity is still going to be a grind fest. Don’t think it won’t be. Also, banking tends to place a lot better into pe than consulting, so if your goal is PE then you should try to do either banking or pe out of undergrad. NU has been really improving their placement and close to 100 people will go into finance from NU this year, which is a lot more than 10 years ago. On the other hand, probably 200 will go from Duke and their placement is outstanding. I am not sure how large the candidate pool from Duke is and the difference is that maybe Duke has twice as many people going for banking. Traditionally, every NU person I have seen has gotten a really good job in finance if they try and there really aren’t that many people going for banking. Nevertheless, you should pick a school based on fit. The marginal difference between these schools is insignificant IMO, but I might be biased since I went to NU.
As a current NU student who just placed into NYC IB, there are plenty of opportunities at NU for IB. Northwestern will not be a limiting factor in you ability to get a job. Our IBC class just sent 8 kids to Blackstone and over a third of the class is going to megafunds right out of undergrad, and multiple people going to Evercore, Lazard, GS, MS ect. All three schools are great. Pick the one that you think you enjoy the most. Your success in recruiting will come down to your gpa, work ethic, clubs, networking, interview prep.
Go blue devils
Duke is even better for MBB than IB, trust. Also, Northwestern undergrad has so little representation in PE, whereas Duke is very strong.
As someone who was admitted to both schools and chose Northwestern, few things to point out here. First, you're totally right that we have worse PE representation than Duke. However, that's mostly because NU sent very few kids (for a T10) to IB before 2020. However, per Peak Frameworks, we sent a pretty good percentage of our bankers to MF PE, at least comparable to Duke. This means that PE firms generally respect the NU degree. With info from my post down before showing how NU is crushing Duke in recent SA recruiting cycles, Northwestern's PE representation should grow exponentially.
Next, Duke may send a few more to MBB per year, but these are more likely to be southern offices (Austin, Atlanta, etc.) where competition is far less fierce than it is for NYC or Chicago. Additionally, T2 have fewer office locations; because Chicago is always an office site, being just 30 minutes away from the city helps out NU tremendously there.
Dude you're way overthinking. Career wise you can't go wrong with any of your options (and if things don't pan out, probably not because of the institution).
You don't know if IB or consulting. You don't know if NYC or CHI. What you do know is that you'll be spending four [transformational] years at whichever school you end up at (but seems like NU has piqued your interest). DONE; let rest of the chips fall where they may.
As an NU grad that ended up doing IB in NY, will say that NU is still a target school for many NY offices (GS, BAML, Evercore, just to name a few). Duke still perhaps edges out for NY recruiting but will say that if you’re interested in IB and want to be in NY, you will be just fine going to NU
As a Columbia undergrad, I personally would choose Duke or Northwestern. GS program is not at all worth the hassle if you have the traditional Duke and Northwestern undergrad acceptances. Even if you only look at housing, finding a place in the city sucks and it’s crazy expensive. My GS friends always complain about the way the university treats them as well, but then again so does everybody. Prestige and placement wise, there’s negligible difference among your options. If you have an absolute hard-on for city living then maybe that might tip the scales for Columbia, but if you’re trying to do NYC IB you’ll have plenty of years to do it after college.
Congrats on your acceptances, I hope you make the most of them.
Agreed with the above...why deal with the hassle of being in the GS program when you have a NU and Duke acceptance?
I went to Columbia. I would go to Duke/Northwestern over GS. Not from a prestige perspective but from an undergraduate student life perspective. Specifically, it absolutely is not worth it to be living off campus instead of in the freshman dorms with the CC/SEAS kids. Dorms are where a lot of close relationships are formed and it would absolutely suck to miss out on that, especially given how lonely Columbia is in general even for CC/SEAS. You don’t even have swipe access to the dorms if you live off campus and have to be specifically invited by someone who lives in a building to go to a party. You will also be in some GS specific core classes. GS students are absolutely amazing and some of the best people I've met at Columbia, but many are older and it's not the same as having friends your age and the GS community just has a bit of a different vibe than undergrads (less tight-knit, less partying). If you do end up choosing Columbia, I would definitely join Greek life and clubs to be more intergrated with CC/SEAS. For IB recruiting, GS isn't disadvantaged, but it may be harder to get into certain clubs and build relationships with upperclassmen. Think Duke/Northwestern is a much better idea given you’re only one year out of college (I'd go Duke :)
Second this — GS students are older and don’t get much support from Columbia. They receive little to no financial aid, so Columbia basically uses this program to benefit from kids paying full tuition and can’t get in the traditional route to CC/SEAS (non traditional background, military, etc).
Also, GS is pay per credit taken which is like summer classes — just a money driven program -> why I heard some kids at CC/SEAS look down on GS
Econ superstar over here lmao
Columbia College > Duke > Columbia GS > Northwestern
is the difference a lot? I really think NU fits me but many are saying the others have better recruiting. Some say there’s a difference. Some say there’s not much difference, all schools will get me to where I want, and I should pick based on fit? I’m leaning NU now but still waiting out before I pull the trigger.
That was based on general reputation and prestige. For recruiting, there wouldn't really be a difference between the 3 schools so choose NU if you really prefer the school as that's more important imo.
If you can't break into finance from NU, you also wouldn't have been able to from the other two.
Wanted to add some color on Northwestern. Historically, Northwestern was not a good finance school. This has changed DRAMATICALLY with the Northwestern Investment Banking Club. NUIBC was founded in 2014 I believe, but the club really began to take off within the last 3-5 years. The acceptance rate fluctuates year over year, but it's usually around 40-50%, and if you know you want IB, it's genuinely 80-90%+. Ever since the Class of 2022 (SA recruiting in 2020), our placement has been phenomenal. We place rather well in MFs (we average 7 (!) to Blackstone a year), top BBs/EBs, etc. Take a look for yourself here: (some placement here is Chicago, but a majority is NYC and can be confirmed with Linkedin)
https://www.northwesternibc.com/placement.html
Why have we done so well? The answer is twofold. First, the executive board of IBC works tirelessly to foster new relationships with current bankers, and puts tremendous effort into improving NU's reputation, status, etc. Second, plenty of collaboration between IBC members. It's rare to have a club that's purely focused on career placement where the camaraderie is so solid. I have a finance friend at HYP going to GS who knows far too much about finance clubs at every school, and he's adamant that Northwestern has the single best large-scale finance organization of any target school. IBC's dedication to its own members is pretty stunning, and lots of praise should be showered on the executive board.
Because our growth in finance is so recent, our general prestige on the street hasn't quite caught up yet, but I 100% believe NU will become a fairly dominant school in no time. IBC's support system is so strong that it elevates NUIBC members from a weaker target to a strong target.
Wow that’s really impressive. Smoking Duke this cycle that’s for sure.
Duke has similar Blackstone placement (2x REPE, 2x BCP, credit, etc) & placed lights out at GS this year. Definitely weaker on the EB side of things though.
For anyone thinking about this kind of decision, there should be only one priority: which school are you going to get the absolute best education in your intended major. How happy you will be at the institution and many other factors obviously contribute to this, but that should be your only focus.
You dont know what youre going to get into afterwards, the only and best thing you can do is to build a solid foundation upon which to build the rest of your career.
Could not be further from the truth in my opinion. The education for most undergraduate majors is almost exactly the same in quality from one institution to another. All these top tier institutions have the resources to teach you finance, engineering, the liberal arts etc. and whereas the faculty really matters at the PhD level, for undergraduate it’s all basically the same for this level of institution. Things like school culture, geography etc. should matter more because they’re actually differentiated
Definitely Duke
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