BO got no freaking respect
Jesus, another night working till 11pm just debugging. I'm a 'data scientist' at a hedge fund, at least that's what I got hired for. But all day I just maintain the reporting system, and I got no freaking respect from the PMs I work with. I could spend all day just updating the return logic, adding a metric, or fixing a dashboard, and don't even get a thanks. Just got all these ad-hoc requests about fixing this or fixing that, I could've been a data engineer at a tech firm if I know where I was getting into.
I just spent two days, working extra hours to modify some code logic, supposed to be for an important meeting. Then I just learned that the meeting went overtime and the PM didn't get a chance to bring the updated logic up. Then what did I work for?I would be fine working extra hard for something impactful, but where is this leading me to? Even my manager ain't getting much more respect. And the FO people can't even write a sql query.
What is a role in finance that require you to be good at coding and also make people respect you besides quant? And also, why is the data infrastructure so damn terrible at all finance firms, while no one addressing it??
(at a MM)
mentally going through my list of severely underappreciated data engineers in "BO" roles all tearing their hair out...
It's cause you didn't learn the difficult subjects of basic algebra and reading like the FO l/s geniuses, rookie mistake
Why not go to quant-focused firms (like AQR, DE Shaw)?
Most data scientists at fundamental shops won't ever be "respected" in the same way as fundamental analysts. Go where your skills can be enhanced into a core strategy.
It's by reading this written out on paper, that I think about how absolutely, ridiculously laughable that data scientists are respected less than fundamental analysts reading balance sheets, at fundamental shops 🤣🤣🤣🤦
It actually makes sense. You've got the wrong mindset.
The fact that you think fundamental investing is only algebra and reading balance sheets, demonstrates a common close-mindedness and lack of appreciation for the bigger picture and commercial-application that often plagues data guys. You do not ‘get’ fundamental investing, so I’m guessing your work is mostly just process/efficiency enhancements vs value add alpha creation.
a typical case of “hey look a made a beautiful and elegant dashboard of useless data, in a manner that doesn’t reveal anything actionable and is ultimately useless for the purpose of generating alpha”. People get used to backpatting and being heralded as sciency and smart cause they went into programming. If you think you’re under appreciated - 1) can you connect your work directly to alpha$ earned? 2) if you cannot, but you think you’re being under-utilized either demonstrate that or change roles/strategies
Data scientist seems like a bullshit title intended to inflate the importance of the role TBH
yeah I feel like you answered your own question here, you have to be a quant. Do whatever it takes.
Join a value creation team at a pe firm working as a data scientist that works on their portcos. It’s a sick job no one ever talks about here and obviously with super high growth prospects right now considering the environment…
Do you think this doesn't happen to the investment staff? An analyst stays up all night working on a new short pitch, but investment committee runs over the next day and there was no time to cover that name. Hell, do you think this doesn't happen to engineers at tech companies? Features get deprioritized, projects get cancelled, entire teams of people work on initiatives that fail. And regardless, even if your feature didn't get heralded, I would assume that senior leadership is using it. It's the reporting system, after all, not some far-off science project.
You're adding features to the reporting system, which is the expectation of the role. Analysts don't get a "thank you" because they did a DCF correctly.
There are discretionary funds that treat their technologists as first-class citizens. This sounds like a cultural issue with your firm. Granted, most hedge funds aren't known for positive working cultures, and most hedge funds especially do not treat their technology staff well, but your experience isn't some universal law of finance.
Based on your post, I recommend that you adopt a mercenary mindset. You feel slighted that your work didn't get presented in a meeting? Doesn't matter, you got the job done and did it well. You aren't getting staffed on alpha-generating projects? Crush your current projects, keep a positive attitude, and work with the investment team on a data science project that will influence a new stock pitch. You don't see a path to more interesting projects? Talk to headhunters, survey your network, and find a new job at a firm with better culture. You have a coding skillset that is in demand, especially if you are able to generate P&L from it.
I'm sympathetic to your position based on personal experience. And maybe I've got some Stockholm syndrome, but nothing in your post surprised me as being uniquely a front-office versus back-office phenomenon. My read is that, unfortunately, not many funds have strong internal culture. So while I want you to find a firm that values you more, some of this stuff is unfortunately par for the course. If you want to stay in the discretionary HF space, you'll need to focus on the positives of hedge fund culture, such as the high quality bar expected, the dynamic pace, and the fact that you tend to only work on projects that actively matter for the book.
Sorry man it's just how the discretionary fundamental HF industry works. Suck it up. Any kind of non-revenue generating role is basically treated like a cost center. Even the analysts in the front office get "plz fix" type requests all the time. The PM just expect infrastructure type work to be done, and if it's not done they get mad. There's never going to be any verbal appreciation for just doing your job description. Unless you are directly making or losing him money, you will be at the end of their list of concerns.
First off, “thank you” occurs around bonus time or annual review where you express what you are worth/want-to-do.
Next, the reason the data infrastructure sucks at those shops is due to people like yourself and boss. I am sure your boss has the same mentality. “Analyst cannot even write SQL”, great make fun of them and create tools they may not even use or create, you should be glad they do not know SQL since if they did they may go around your tools or make their own in general. If the technology/data team cannot find a way to enhance the analysts job/toolset after a while the PM usually just tells sure just do it your way.
Good luck for the analysts figuring out the tools by themselves lmao, the reason why the infrastructure sucks is people like you who don’t appreciate the work of the capable, drove them away, and let the HF analysts ‘learn Sql and develop cool tools’.
Take it what you will, if you seriously think an analyst cannot recreate any tool you made in a more inefficient method using excel or so. I.e. they cannot do their job without not sure what to say.
I wrote in another thread, in the future PMs will seek analysts who want to know data structures and basic ways to use SQL/Python as it is way more efficient and robust. I also wrote that “data scientists” job should be focused on creating a strong backend infrastructure and data integrity.
Both sides need to speak together end of the day.
Head of Data at VC here, went into tech after banking internships. You have to sell your work internally (just like you have to in big tech), and build stuff that clearly makes their life better. When it does, sell it hard.
I get a ton of appreciation since being here for about a year - the people I know that moved into data in FS that don't get appreciation wouldn't have been good at getting it in big tech either. These things always require internal sales, whether you call that politics or not.
Just doing great work is not enough.
I work in a similar role and I see the opposite happening much more often. The fundamental investors are always very nice to me, but I very often see people in programming roles acting superior to those who aren't because they can code and do stats. Things like "X doesn't even know what he wants, he doesn't understand how to code".
Companies giving the title of ‘Data Scientist’ to their reporting monkeys is my favorite trend in this late stage corporate dystopia. We all get fancy titles until the Fed raises rates by 0.000000001% and then you learn your real title: unemployed. And yet, knowing all that, I still cling on to my own meme title like it was gold.
Just cruising through to shatter people's realities as a pastime huh? Love it!
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