Transferring to Ivy for Undergrad?

Is this even possible to do? Has anyone transferred into HYS and MIT type schools and if so, do you attribute it to luck/money//URM athlete/being famous or standard strong stats like a 2300 SAT and 3.7+ college GPA?

 

TBH I wouldn't bother. Going from a state school/non-target to a target/semi-target is one thing but going from a top 20 to a top 5 is another animal. Yale's acceptance rate is ~2-3%, Harvard's is ~1-2%, and Stanford's is ~1%. In addition, Stanford pretty much only takes people with non-traditional/"weird" backgrounds.

After you factor in athlete transfers (especially at Stanford) you are facing enormous odds. Only when you start approaching the Browns, Cornells, Columbias, etc. do you see even somewhat hopeful chances. If I were you I'd rather spend the time hanging out with friends and making sure I do well in classes.

FYI, I transferred to a target from a state school.

MM IB -> Corporate Development -> Strategic Finance
 
SECfinance:
TBH I wouldn't bother. Going from a state school/non-target to a target/semi-target is one thing but going from a top 20 to a top 5 is another animal. Yale's acceptance rate is ~2-3%, Harvard's is ~1-2%, and Stanford's is ~1%. In addition, Stanford pretty much only takes people with non-traditional/"weird" backgrounds.

After you factor in athlete transfers (especially at Stanford) you are facing enormous odds. Only when you start approaching the Browns, Cornells, Columbias, etc. do you see even somewhat hopeful chances. If I were you I'd rather spend the time hanging out with friends and making sure I do well in classes.

FYI, I transferred to a target from a state school.

Top 20 school doesn't mean it's a target, Rice and Vanderbilt and Swarthmore definitely do not get targeted very much for NYC IB though they are solid names on the resume that recruiters might give a second look at. Lots of non top 20 state schools like Michigan, UNC, UVA and UCLA are better than them. I'm also considering Stern, Columbia, Brown/Cornell (would be ranked downwards for me) because they would probably give me a better experience with like minded individuals interested in a career on Wall St. What do you feel are the main factors that go into acceptance at such schools?

 
SECfinance:
TBH I wouldn't bother. Going from a state school/non-target to a target/semi-target is one thing but going from a top 20 to a top 5 is another animal. Yale's acceptance rate is ~2-3%, Harvard's is ~1-2%, and Stanford's is ~1%. In addition, Stanford pretty much only takes people with non-traditional/"weird" backgrounds.

After you factor in athlete transfers (especially at Stanford) you are facing enormous odds. Only when you start approaching the Browns, Cornells, Columbias, etc. do you see even somewhat hopeful chances. If I were you I'd rather spend the time hanging out with friends and making sure I do well in classes.

FYI, I transferred to a target from a state school.

HYS are pretty much impossible I agree. According to a thread from college confidential, they only take military veterans for transfer (of course with all the standard strong gpa, great SAT, etc). My hunch is however, that kids interested in wall street have better resumes/extracurriculars than your average liberal arts applicant and so it might not be impossible for someone with multiple finance internships, research with professor, etc. MIT might be more reasonable and they have an undergrad business major that is very well respected - though they are definitely looking for more science-oriented students.

 

Also as a follow question to people who are more experienced with MBA admissions, how in the world is it that someone like Brady4MVP who went to WHARTON for undergrad is having trouble getting into wharton for an MBA? MBA business schools ">M7 b schools have a higher acceptance rate then their undergraduate colleges typically.

 
BTbanker:
Hopkins, applying to Cornell AEM would give you an excellent chance of breaking in. HYS are overrated.

To OP: if you're thinking about transferring to Cornell AEM, keep in mind you really gotta impress. My brother was an AEM grad and according to him more than half of Cornell kids can't even transfer in...and it's definitely harder for non-Cornell transfers. It's a major with strict number of students.

 
Rambo:
BTbanker:
Hopkins, applying to Cornell AEM would give you an excellent chance of breaking in. HYS are overrated.

To OP: if you're thinking about transferring to Cornell AEM, keep in mind you really gotta impress. My brother was an AEM grad and according to him more than half of Cornell kids can't even transfer in...and it's definitely harder for non-Cornell transfers. It's a major with strict number of students.

Cornell AEM is easy to get into if your a New York State Native or go to a NY community college. It's only hard for outsiders because they have a cap on the # of students they let in as you say, and are forced by the state to prefer NY kids and pretty much to accept everyone who completes the community college pre-reqs with a 4.0. I'm actually thinking about Cornell CAS for a Government major (MUCH easier than their econ major) while supplementing with finance classes like financial and intermediate financial accounting, corporate finance, Mergers&Acquisitions, etc from AEM/Hotel.

 

Interested as well in the OP's question. Say 3.9+ GPA, 2200+ sat, two internships and great extracurriculars from top 60 school.

Anyone here have knowledge of or experience in transferring to a Columbia, AEM or HYS?

 
MindOverMonkey:
Interested as well in the OP's question. Say 3.9+ GPA, 2200+ sat, two internships and great extracurriculars from top 60 school.

Anyone here have knowledge of or experience in transferring to a Columbia, AEM or HYS?

consensus from pms, college confidential and wso seems to be that transferring to a top state school is easier than top private and that transferring into the top 10 + Williams/Amherst is essentially impossible unless your military, famous, non traditional or want some weird niche major not offered. Small class sizes and the large pool of students in econ/finance makes even schools like JHU and Georgetown hard, but not impossible if you have good stats. If you go to a non target though (I'm assuming you do since you said top 60), getting into a top 30 school like Stern, BC, UCLA would still really help you out and won't be like a 5% chance of getting in. I'm at Johns Hopkins and I'm considering transferring to Cornell because it has business courses

 

Note that MIT doesn't really consider your major when you're applying for transfer.

I know one person who was accepted to transfer NYU -> Cornell (she turned it down though). I know another that transferred from UT -> Harvard as a sophomore, and another that went Some Midwest University -> Stanford. Arguably, all three of these individuals has something to their name besides just a good GPA. The Stanford transfer had some impressive entrepreneurial ventures on the side; Harvard transfer was double honors at UT and had done some impressive research (he's some science major). Not impossible but you really need to stand out.

SATs pretty much mean jack shit during transfers.... extracurriculars too, unless it's something extremely impressive. Your investment clubs and fraternity rush chair positions aren't going to cut it.

Currently: future neurologist, current psychotherapist Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)
 

I transferred to Stanford. PM me

I don't want to post too many public details because the number of transfers is so small , and I might inadvertently identify myself publicly

 

I transferred from a non-target to a ~ top 20. Cornell isn't particularly hard to transfer into, assuming you have the stats. This means 3.7+, strong EC's, kick ass essays. I think for your EC's you really want to have leadership roles and in your essays you convince the adcoms why you should be given admission half way through your career to that particular school. I have friends from my non-target who got into Cornell/Columbia. I think URM helps but people tend to exaggerate the extent of its importance.

HPS are pretty tough to get into, and to the extent of my knowledge Harvard and Princeton don't accept transfers (they didn't when I was applying anyways) and Stanford is ridiculously hard to get into. I'd say their transfer admit rate fluctuates anywhere from sub 1% to 3% AT MOST, usually being around 1%-2%. The people I've seen get in usually have very unconventional backgrounds/stories or had other remarkable accomplishments. GS said he transferred to Stanford (props, that's no easy undertaking) so I would seek guidance from him.

Also, I think if you're in a top 20 already, if you kick ass, do well, and take initiative, you'll be fine. In retrospect, I kind of regret brooding over not going to a more prestigious/ target school. I'm happy where I am now but I wish I enjoyed my prior school more instead of scouring college admissions forums and wishing for a better school.

Good luck!

 

Would I stand a good chance at getting a position from a top end state school (UCLA/Berkeley/Michigan) or would my lack of a hard business/finance degree + lack of work experience really screw me over?

 

Someone asked a related question a few days ago and there is some disagreement over this.

From MY experience, Econ majors at those schools usually land boutique banking positions i.e (Morgan Joseph and the like) but you have a very high GPA and you have a good shot at landing a BB/MM/Elite Boutique position.

What you need to do is some networking and put yourself out there so the recruiters notice you, because most Banks tend to accept only BBA resumes from those schools and fill up their spots from that pool of candidates.

PM me if you want more information.

 
Best Response

Pretty wrong on this one bro. You have no idea how strong the Ivy league pull is, plus the alumni loyalty at ivies is incredibly strong. A H/Y/P grad will almost always take another H/Y/P over a UW madison student. Competition matters less because there are more opportunities at an Ivy vs Madison. You can get decent grades at an Ivy and still have a strong chance for a BB internship position. As the OP said, only the top 5-10 students make it into banking from Madison, so the OP would really have to be top of the class. The entitled thing really doesn't matter either, he could easily talk about how he was poor growing up and how he fought his way into a top school. Some people really have a chip on their shoulder about hiring ivy league grads, but most don't.

 

I go to a non-target private school now and I was accepted to transfer to Cornell AEM and I can tell you the benefits completely outweigh the costs, in my personal opinion. I even spoke to a partner / founder of a hedge fund about it and he encouraged the move. I'd say transfer if you can, although I wouldn't do it unless its an ivy or a top target school

 

I would stay at Wisconsin. It will be easier to be top of your class there, and you'll probably have a better 4 years. I think it's hard to take someone's advice who is doing/has done the exact same thing that you are considering since they obviously want to justify their decision (whether consciously or not). Regardless, I'd rather be a big fish at UW. I might even say that you have a better chance to go bb from UW than from Cornell, because less people will be applying for those spots. It isn't like Cornell has 100 BB spots, each bb might take 3 kids from Cornell?

 

If you have to work so hard in order to be at the top of your class at Wisconsin, then you probably won't be able to enjoy your time there socially that distinguishes it from Cornell. I would go to Cornell AEM since you don't have to be in the top 10% of your cohort to get an IBD job.

There isn't much difference between Harvard and Cornell when it comes to finance recruiting by the way. Both are top notch.

 

All these responses have been really great; WSO never ceases to be helpful (if not opinionated). As of right now I'm leaning toward the transfer to AEM. I think I lean toward mrharveyspecter in terms of the pull the ivy name has when it comes to finance recruiting. The only strange thing about AEM transfer admissions is the recommended courses. A full year of biology and a semester of chemistry or physics would be hard to explain to other admissions officers and I don't know if I should bank that hard on one school. Any thoughts on this?

 

Are you thinking of sending in transfer applications to any other schools? Why are you sticking with Cornell as your top transfer school? UVA would be fantastic as would some other "lower tier" ivies such as Dartmouth or Brown. University of Chicago, and Duke also place well and of course if you could get into HYPW those would be the best.

Top Liberal arts colleges would be great as well, Amherst, Williams, Middlebury etc. If you haven't even started college yet and could pull a 4.0 after one year with good ec involvement you could probably aim pretty high in terms of transfers.

 
Bcychosz:

I will be going to UW-Madison next year (freshman) and I'm wondering if it's worth it to try to transfer to a more heavily recruited program, namely Cornell AEM, Northwestern, or UVA. Last year about 20 kids who graduated from the business school at UW got IBD Analyst jobs, and only about 5 or 6 were BB. Also, I think the stronger undergrad school would look better on a future MBA application, right? On the other hand, I may be able to graduate from UW in 3 years, making it a ton cheaper, not to mention the fact that it might be easier to stand out at my school than it would be at an Ivy where everyone is trying to land banking jobs. So the overall question is, do you think I should try to be a real standout at my non-target school, or try to transfer to a stronger program?

If money isn't an issue (you can afford it, or your parents can afford it), then you should transfer IF given the opportunity to do so.

Can you get to the same place coming from UW? As you said, yes. But it'll mean you'll have to work that much harder to hustle and stand out. But it's possible. So let's say the transfer doesn't work out. It's hardly the end of the world if you're at UW - just bust your ass and hopefully it'll pay off for you.

But if you get the transfer, you should go. The fact is, that's where the recruiters you want to target tend to focus their attention on. Yes the banks (or any other number of recruiters - you never know you may have a change of heart and decide to say work in consulting, or tech, or whatever) do recruit from a range of schools, but they will pay closer attention to the kids at the Ivies.

Think of it like college sports. If you're a high school football player, would you rather go to a strong mid major like Fresno State, or go to an SEC even if it's not Alabama or Auburn (say it's LSU). You can still get drafted out of Fresno State if you're a standout, but chances are you will benefit more by going to an SEC school where not only will you get more attention from scouts, but also play alongside and against higher caliber competition as a whole compared to what you'd experience at a mid major (which will benefit you beyond college and better prepare you for the pros). Again doesn't mean every single player should make that same decision, but most would if given the opportunity. And also not every single SEC player will get into the NFL nor will they turn out to be amazing, but the cards are stacked in their favor.

Same goes with recruiting for investment banking and mgmt consulting when it comes to the Ivy/equivalents versus other programs. And just like the football analogy above, there's benefits beyond just recruiting: you'll be surrounded by students that as a whole are of a higher caliber (yes, there's geniuses at state schools and lower ranked schools, but the variance is much higher than at the Ivies where there are far fewer duds) - which can only help you elevate your game. Downside of that is the Ivies are also known for producing highly neurotic, stressed out kids who may not know how to enjoy life and have the perspective of the kids from lower ranked schools, but that's a tradeoff you'll have to make.

Having worked with all kinds of people, what seems to distinguish folks from top schools vs others really boils down to one thing:

The kids from top schools (Ivy, or any equivalent in other countries) have an "extra gear" so to speak. It's that extra little bit of grit, discipline, focus, and sheer will to get things done, whatever it may be. It may be their upbringing, their environment (high school, college classmates) - but they don't half-ass anything, and willing to do that little bit extra to be thorough, to get it right, to be just a little more methodical in their approach, and so forth. And it's cumulative Again, you don't need to go to an Ivy for this, but it certainly helps to be surrounded by more people who are developing or have developed this extra gear (and frankly it may be why they got into these top schools in the first place).

Alex Chu www.mbaapply.com
 

Good question. I had really focused on Cornell for two reasons. One, I know someone who transferred there from a Wisconsin state school. Two, they seem to have the most realistic acceptance rate. So I guess both of those reasons boil down to the fact that I think Cornell has the highest likelihood of admittance. Do you happen to know what the acceptance rates are like at the other schools you listed?

 

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