Investment Banking Australia
Hey guys, I was wondering if a Law/Commerce degree at a G8 University will make me competitive in getting an Investment Banking role. I am good at and really enjoy maths, physics, and finance. Due to this would you guys recommend something else?
Depends on what division you'd like to work in - if you enjoy maths and physics, I don't think you'd enioy working in M&A.
G8 Law/Comm is more or less as well positioned as you can be to score a banking role.
Keep in mind there are a lot of Law/Comm grads interested in these kind of roles so anything you can do to stand out from the crowd will help - ECs, unique background/story, internship experience etc.
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Hey mate. I'm an Australian student as well, there are more Aussies on WSO than you think. We had the first WSO catch up in Sydney in Feb, it was great fun. From what I've seen this is what gets you over the line in Australian IB.
University results
Internships
Extracuricular activities
GO8
Law/Comm
Emotional Intelligence
Having solid EQ is important in IB, you will come up against people who have slaved away studying getting HDs but they lack in personal skills. Use this to your advantage, be chilled and work on being able to hold conversations with people and be interesting. It will pay off, small things like being able to talk sport or the markets can leave a good impression.
Any questions feel free to ask me. It can seem overwhelming and it is, its very competitive out there and don't compare yourself to others. When they are doing better internships getting better results you will feel like crap and that will most likely happen.
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I'm currently trying to break in as-well. Majority of Summer Analysts I know have studied Comm/Law however if you really do enjoy maths, I would suggest doing Eng/Comm since banks these days are trying to increase their diversity hires and are hiring STEM students. As long as you can show them that you are interested in finance, and have strong engineering background you can position yourself well for Natural Resources or TMT groups.
The most common degrees of those who've broken into IB in Australia that I know are Engineering/Commerce, Science (predominantly math)/Commerce, Law/Commerce, and straight Commerce. In saying that, I know a bunch of others with different backgrounds, such as a girl who did straight engineering and got into Goldman IBD and is now an Associate in NYC.
Really, just go to UMelbourne, ANU, or USydney (IMO they're in a different league to the others), do a degree that you are interested in, get top grades, be heavily involved in the finance/consulting clubs and do lots of competitions, network (something that's undervalued in Australia) and you'll be good.
Investment Banking in Australia (Sydney) (Originally Posted: 05/30/2018)
Hi everyone,
Long-time lurker, first-time poster.
I'm currently based in London, but considering an opportunity that has come up in a front-office role in Sydney.
Does anyone know how the comp compares (VP / ED level), if banks in Australia typically pay expat / relocation packages, and any up-to-date views on the working culture there?
Many thanks in advance!
Hi jimmac, no, I never sleep and so I can respond to any lonely threads (like this one) at all hours of the night. Impressive, I know ;-)
If we're lucky, maybe these professional users will respond: jfaha92 henryqcy barbariansmonkey
If those topics were completely useless, don't blame me, blame my programmers...
Australian IB Chances (Originally Posted: 09/22/2007)
Hey guys, been looking at the forum for a while now, and I need some advice and opinions on chances/direction from the board, also to any other Aussie i-bankers out there.
Basically I’m graduating from Curtin University of Technology - non target by Australian standards with finance/property majors. One more year to go, sitting on 70% average (Distinction). Hoping to graduate with 75%. Not sure what it is in GPA? I think a 3.5+
I've basically got myself two schools of thought to break into the BB's that have operations here i.e. UBS, ABN, MacBank, JPM, CS.
or
Considering I am 20, another 3 years of study hopefully starting as an analyst at age 23?
Thanks for your replies in advance.
Gday,
Just a little bit of a reality check, most successful applicants to the big banks in Aus have at least a double degree or honours from one of the top eight sandstones (or both in the case of UBS) with a 75%+ average. You would have to be an outstanding candidate with great EC's to even get an interview. I'm not trying to be a downer or anything, but that is the system.
So knowing that, I would say your best bet might be to transfer either to UWA or to an east coast school (UNSW, USyd or UMelb). You have an average that would allow you to transfer for your final year, maintain the average and get offered honours. Get a first class honours, and you will be in with a great chance.
With respect to the LLB, the law degree is held in high esteem by some banks. Yet, it is more a signal of quality. If you can show the banks you are smart, committed etc in another way, it saves you 3 years. You definitely do not need an LLB, but a double degree of some sort will stand you apart. UMelb runs a 2 year JD program that will be heavily recruited, so if you are really keen on law, I would say that would be the best option.
Also, just remember that most analysts start a bit later here than they do in the US etc. Most have spent the extra few years doing work experience either at the big 4 accounting firms or some boutique regionals. A good track record is very important.
Agree with beaker, although I do not think there is any point transferring for the final year of the undergraduate degree.
I would say try and get into 4th year honours program at a target institution on the East coast (UNSW, Melb, maybe even Monash) or UWA at very least, because from my experience only one of the BB bothered to come over to UWA to give a recruitment presentation back in '05. So recruitment options from W.A. are very limited, even for UWA.
Get in, and then proceed with grad recruitment from there.
I suppose you could always try applying to Argonaut Limited (a small boutique running out of W.A.) as well.
Most, if not all, the banks recruit from UWA. I know at least 4 recruited from there in 2002. My bank recruited there this year, so did Macquarie, JPM, GSJBW, CS - that I know. One guy that I interviewed at one stage is headed to Morgan Stanley, or so I heard.
UBS recruited there as well i think...
UBS recruited over at UWA as well i think...
I am of the opinion that going over to the Eastern states will give you a much better chance of Ibanking recruitment though. There is a whole heap of UMelb, UNSW, USyd people at my bank...
Yeah, there's no doubt more from the east coast schools, but moving from Perth to the east coast for the last year of school is a massive hurdle. If you are good enough, it can be done from UWA.
Personally think that UMelb and USyd are the only east coast places you want to look at. UNSW / Monash could be your fall backs. Keep in mind that your average is usually assessed on a relative basis depending on your Uni. 70% at UMelb/USyd will hold a premium to 70% at UNSW/Monash. They won't tell you this, but I've spoken to HR and I know they do it. Make sure you exceed 75% in your honours year. I think an honour years will a more practical way to go rather than investing another 2-3 years into law (100% agree on Breaker's view on this). You have to get your average up, and given that there will be superstars with 80% averages also applying, you need an angle. You should be able to demonstrate knowledge of DCFs / valuation techniques / current deals / what is IB and clearly articulate why you want IB and why you are suited for it.
Goodluck!
AUSTRALIAN IB - Looking for study advice. (Originally Posted: 07/07/2016)
This post reminds me of another post on a different forum.
Would I be right?
first time posting here and have not posted on other forums and the similar post check said no similar posts have been made so I wouldn't be able to tell you
I ask because posted a very similar question here:
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=2544801
Also, this is a US-centric forum so the likelihood of a response is somewhat low. I don't know enough about IBD to provide anything definitive on what the banks are looking for.
first time seeing that post, and I don't frequent whirlpool. yep however I saw a pretty big AUS IB thread in here with a fair few contributions so i thought there must be some Australians on here, will have to wait and see.
For IB, study Commerce (Finance & Accounting).
Double degree with law is most traditional and best for getting a job, but any double degree will give you an opportunity
If you do bachelor of commerce then you really need to do honours to get a job straight from university
Are you kidding me? Never have I heard anyone say that doing commerce honours is necessary to get a job out of undergrad. Complete and total rubbish.
certainly grades are most important, but how would that explain the emphasis on combining study with law? since ive read multiple times that banks like it, im guessing for the 'prestige' factor? i know the extra length of study helps with work experience and resume building but thats also possible in an economics and finance double degree for example, which is 4 years and can be extended to 5 with an honours year. i dont mind doing it, but combining econ/finance/accounting seems to be more useful.
or is the bottom line in fact grades and that a D or HD average regardless if its commerce or law or engineering gives you an equal opportunity? (as long as other criteria are satisfied)
In Australia, IBs have traditionally and predominantly recruited Commerce + Law double majors. Although knowledge of law will give you some crossover knowledge, from what I have heard, it is minimal. Overall, Commerce (Finance and Accounting) is more relevant and gives you a more practical skill set.
I think this has more to do with the fact that, in the past, top students chose to pursue Commerce and Law, since it had higher entry requirements. Even today it may still have higher entry requirements. This led to self-selection bias, since when selecting for the top students, most of them would happen to be in Commerce and Law, rather than double Commerce. However, this is NOT the way IB recruitment works everywhere else in the world. Commerce (Accounting + Finance) is the most common path into IB everywhere else, since it is the most relevant and useful qualification for the job. Even so, there are plenty of people in Australia that work in IB with Accounting + Finance.
Regardless of what you choose, both will make you eligible for IB recruitment. However, Commerce (Finance and Accounting) will equip you better for the job and in interviews.
Law allows students to study a whole load of foundational concepts in depth which are important in banking eg contract law, trust law, corporations law, tax law. Not only the subject matter, but the discipline required (eg reading and digesting huge amounts of readings) is a good signal of competence for banking. The fact that the student has done a dual degree and so has some flexibility and diversity of thinking and ability is also a good sign.
Law school classes (at least in my day) were far more Socratic, which generally makes a candidate far better thinking, thinking on the spot and able to deal well in interviews. Law also provides opportunities for activities (eg mooting) which do the same.
Law students tends to have far more diverse career objectives and law students get more exposed to diversity of thinking than commerce students, who tend to be more sheltered.
Law students have a 5 year degree, so generally have 1 - 2 more years of maturity by the time they are interviewing, which makes a critical difference in your early 20s.
Law students are generally smarter and more competent.
Those are just a handful of the reasons.
~
Thanks for the responses everyone, although the extra time Law gives is irrelevant (since econ/commerce double is 4 years + optional honors year) it seems it carries a level of prestige and is the more common degree and 'harder' degree it seems like. What I would like to know is am I at any real level of disadvantage if I make an application for a BB IB, and I've done econ/finance or commerce (accounting finance), have strong EC's, strong grades, good work experience and show an overall interest in the industry and company as opposed to someone who has the same but did a LAW double degree? Would the recruiter at all favor the law student, possibly because they also have that degree, or if they believe it to be more 'difficult', or simply for the prestige factor or whatever other reasons?
QGKZ hits the nail on the head. Honours has little impact on recruitment. And if you go down the Commerce/Law path, honours is an extra year on top of a five year degree.
To directly answer your question I think both candidates would pass the first gate (i.e. HR) and, in assuming you do well on the tests, it'll boil down to luck and rapport with the interviewers. Don't underestimate how much luck plays a role in the whole process.
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Helping Prospective Australian I-Banking Monkeys! (Originally Posted: 06/19/2013)
Hi guys, Good to see a couple of Aussies around. Have created a topic about Australian Banking and would love to get some help with the responses! While i feel i have a decent understanding of the industry and the ways to go about getting internships etc, im not actually in banking, so i can only give so much advice.
see link below
//www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/answering-australian-i-banking-questions
Would love for you guys to give your own opinions and answers to questions and especially pull me up if you feel my information is not 100% correct or just downright wrong! Im just trying to create a place where us Australians can gather information about the industry we want to enter.
Thanks Fellow Monkeys!!
I think this is a great idea, especially as a lot of the talk on the site is USA-centric. May wish to update the link, though.
Thanks renitent.precept. Link is updated!
Might be good to get some tractions on an Australian WSO Drinks.
Sounds like a good idea! I'll send the Admin - who i believe is andy - an email and let you know what he says.
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